Critics of atheism please come forward.

[robtex]

Maybe the mere fact that someone could not whole heartily commit to the idea that God 100 % exists creates an offensive in and of itself to believers. That by being a non-believer or even just a skeptic, that one is turning his/her back on what is known to be true or more commonly put "the truth" . That idea seems to fit the OP's question. A skeptic in the room many times put pressure on the believer to qualify their belief or belief system which makes the idea of the perceived need to qualify as offensive.

Also, the idea of atheist elevating evidence to a higher plateau than faith when it comes to the divine question has been cited in the past as a grievance. The idea being that the question of does God exist, is too important to hold to the same standard to say a question of like "do blue cars exist?" or "does the earth rotate around the sun" or "are cats mammals" or other ideas that can be are emotionally qualified by the theists to be analyzed by evidence alone.

Lastly, I have heard the argument of optimism which projects that the idea that anyone would be even skeptical, much less a non-believer in a God is by default a pessimist on the human condition and human existence. I don't get that argument very well but I figure there has to be at least some theists online who concur with this idea and maybe can elaborate on it.

 

[LogDog]

-------If there are any fundamentalist christian members reading this thread, please come forward and contribute a few of your thoughst on the topic.------

 

[Hope]

Why are Christians always saying that? It makes no sense at all. Just because something is important to you, doesn't mean you worship it. Ask yourself: Is there anything in the world, anything at all other than God that's important to you? Family, friends, anything at all? Do you worship everything that's important to you?

It makes no sense to you because you don't have a true understanding of what worship is. I would say worship doesn't involve merely something or someone that's important to us----lots of things are important to us, and that's ok----but rather someone or something that we esteem greatly, far above everything else. Something or someone, whether real or imaginary, that we recognize as being worthy of our passion, praise, and devotion. Something we set up on a pedestal, that essentially becomes our idol. You can't deny that the human race has this unique tendency. And it's one of the things that sets us apart from animals.

We can worship ourselves, we can idolize celebrities and other famous people, we can idolize sports teams....we can even idolize logic and the intellect. I can guarantee you there's at least one thing (or person) that you worship, whether you realize it or not.

Where did God come from?

Where did the universe come from? I don't see why I should have to answer your question if you can't answer mine.

An eternally existent God makes absolutely no more sense than an eternally existent universe. However, I have never, ever heard a scientist claim that the universe is without beginning. They do admit to the difficulty of knowing what happened before the universe began. There is no shame in admitting that you don't know what you don't know, although people who believe in divine revelation seem to have trouble understanding that.

Did you actually read my posts??:sarcastic

If there is no shame in admitting that you don't know what you don't know, then why do you and so many other atheists apply a double standard when insisting theists provide an answer for the origin of God?

 

[Hope]

Actually, it's not at all logical.

P: Something or someone must have eternal, uncaused existence.
C: Therefore, God has eternal, uncaused existence.

I have to admit it's uncomplicated, though.

Well, you are the first to say it's illogical, so perhaps you can give me a more "logical" explanation? Again, did you actually read my posts in their entirety? You are simply taking statements out of context.

Do you, or do you not, agree with the statement "Something or someone must have eternal, uncaused existence"?

If not, why? (This is a perspective I'm really interested in hearing.)

If so, how is saying that God is that eternal, uncaused existence any less rational than saying something else is?

 

[Hope]

-------If there are any fundamentalist christian members reading this thread, please come forward and contribute a few of your thoughst on the topic.------

How do you define "fundamentalist"?

 

[LogDog]

How do you define "fundamentalist"?

How about christians who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a core set of christian beliefs: namely, the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the authenticity of his miracles?

 

[Hope]

How about christians who, in a reaction to modernism, actively affirmed a core set of christian beliefs: namely, the inerrancy of the Bible, the virgin birth of Christ, the doctrine of substitutionary atonement, the bodily resurrection of Jesus, and the authenticity of his miracles?

I guess I'm "fundamentalist" then.

Now...in light of this----are all the posts I've contributed chopped liver??

 

[Nanda]

When I think fundamentalist, I think Bible literalist.

 

[ChristineES]

Why are Christians always saying that? It makes no sense at all. Just because something is important to you, doesn't mean you worship it. Ask yourself: Is there anything in the world, anything at all other than God that's important to you? Family, friends, anything at all? Do you worship everything that's important to you?

1. I am not saying that all people who enjoy something or things that are important are worshipping it but I am saying that it is possible that some people do worship things that are not a God or whatever. I was not implying that everyone does it, either.

2. I was answering the fact that one person posting said he or she as an atheist believes in NOTHING. I know that isn't true, everyone believes in something even if they don't believe in a deity or the supernatural; and another person who is an atheist says the same as I do.

3. Of course everyone has things outside of God that they enjoy.

 

[Nanda]

2. I was answering the fact that one person posting said he or she as an atheist believes in NOTHING. I know that isn't true, everyone believes in something even if they don't believe in a deity or the supernatural

What about nihilists?

and another person who is an atheist says the same as I do

Again, one atheist cannot speak for all atheists; we all have different beliefs.

 

[ChristineES]

I am bit offended (well, not really offended). I am a Baptist, which is considered a fundamentalist. I don't take the whole bible literally. Maybe I am not really a "fundie" at heart, but who knows?

 

[ChristineES]

What about nihilists?

I don't anything about them. But I am sure that they at least believe in themselves, but I could be mistaken.

 

[Nanda]

I don't anything about them. But I am sure that they at least believe in themselves, but I could be mistaken.

Nihilism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Smoke]

It makes no sense to you because you don't have a true understanding of what worship is. I would say worship doesn't involve merely something or someone that's important to us----lots of things are important to us, and that's ok----but rather someone or something that we esteem greatly, far above everything else. Something or someone, whether real or imaginary, that we recognize as being worthy of our passion, praise, and devotion. Something we set up on a pedestal, that essentially becomes our idol. You can't deny that the human race has this unique tendency. And it's one of the things that sets us apart from animals.

Let me ask you this: What do you worship besides God?

 

[Smoke]

Well, you are the first to say it's illogical, so perhaps you can give me a more "logical" explanation? Again, did you actually read my posts in their entirety? You are simply taking statements out of context.

Yes, I read your posts in their entirety. Do you?

It's illogical because your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

Do you, or do you not, agree with the statement "Something or someone must have eternal, uncaused existence"?

If not, why? (This is a perspective I'm really interested in hearing.)

No. It seems that ultimately, something must have been uncaused, but I don't know of any reason to think that that something is eternal.

If so, how is saying that God is that eternal, uncaused existence any less rational than saying something else is?

I didn't say it was irrational; I said your argument was illogical. It's theoretically possible that your Imaginary Friend has eternal, uncaused existence, but I don't think so, and I have no reason to think so.

 

[Smoke]

1. I am not saying that all people who enjoy something or things that are important are worshipping it but I am saying that it is possible that some people do worship things that are not a God or whatever. I was not implying that everyone does it, either.

Oh, good. I misunderstood, because what started that whole exchange was somebody else's baseless assertion that everybody worships something.

 

[PureX]

Photos of Atheists:

 

[Hope]

Let me ask you this: What do you worship besides God?

Too many things to list (plus it's a very personal list.)

I'll readily admit I don't give God the worship He deserves. To my own shame, I often put other people and things before Him. But I'm striving to change that.

 

[Hope]

Yes, I read your posts in their entirety. Do you?

It's illogical because your conclusion doesn't follow from your premise.

I see your point there, but that is only so because I have not gone into further reasons why I believe God is the answer as opposed to something else. That is another whole argument. I was merely showing how belief in God is not truly irrational or illogical when compared to belief in atheism.

No. It seems that ultimately, something must have been uncaused, but I don't know of any reason to think that that something is eternal.

Please explain.

I didn't say it was irrational; I said your argument was illogical. It's theoretically possible that your Imaginary Friend has eternal, uncaused existence, but I don't think so, and I have no reason to think so.

How come?

 

[Jeremiah]

It is a certainty that every person on this planet that is of age to show good moral judgment has, at some point, been taught right from wrong. Therefor all morality stems from obedience, which, is itself, moral.

As a kid I was not just taught what was right or wrong. My parents made sure that I knew why it was right or wrong. And while there is an act of discipline and/or obedience to the ethical. I do not consider that morality unless it is also accompanied by the understanding of why it is ethical. (I do not accept because God said so, as an answer to "Why?")

That is not logical. There cannot be a negative position to a position that does not yet exist. If there was an atheist some eons ago that said, "I don't believe in God", the next question would have to be, "What is God?". No matter how badly you want to classify atheism apart from theism, it cannot be done so in any meaningful way.

A negative position? What are you talking about? I didn't say to myself at some point. Well they are going that way. So I am going to go this way just because they are going that way. Its does not make sense.

The idea popped into my head "There is no God" just like that and over the course of several years. I pondered an Earth with God and an Earth without God. I came to the conclusion that either way it did not make a bit of difference. I was still here and in the same boat. So I decided that I would not believe in anything that I could not prove to myself within reasonable doubt. I have no idea where some people get this idea that atheism is an opposition to theism(This is called antitheism not atheism). But I chose this as a mental discipline or structure in which to build my understanding of life. I didn't even realize my label was atheist till few years ago. I was talking to someone about my ideas and then they pointed out I was an atheist. I had to ask. "What's an atheist?"

Atheism and anti-theism so often occur together at the same time and in the same person that it's understandable if many people fail to realize that they aren't the same. Making note of the difference is important, however, because not every atheist is anti-theistic and even those who are, aren't anti-theistic all the time. Atheism is simply the absence of belief in gods; anti-theism is a conscious and deliberate opposition to theism. Many atheists are also anti-theists, but not all.

Atheism & Anti-Theism: What's the Difference? What is Anti-Theism? Are All Atheists Anti-Theists? Is Atheism Inherently Anti-Theistic?

My point is that atheism is an independent idea not a divergent one.

---

No matter how badly you want

I would imagine that you know to little of me, to presume to know what I want.