Cross-Dressing

[Rival]

Alright, I know someone out there is gonna faint or crap his pants because Rival is saying this, but it concerns me.

Why does seeing a man wearing a dress and lipstick bother us? We see women in trousers, skirts, dresses, dungarees, shorts, with or without makeup, whatever they want; but the minute a man walks down the street in a skirt and lipgloss he's standing out?

Does not compute.

 

[Nietzsche]

Alright, I know someone out there is gonna faint or crap his pants because Rival is saying this, but it concerns me.

Why does seeing a man wearing a dress and lipstick bother us? We see women in trousers, skirts, dresses, dungarees, shorts, with or without makeup, whatever they want; but the minute a man walks down the street in a skirt and lipgloss he's standing out?

Does not compute.

It's worse than that. High-heels, tights, nigh-all fashion has been exclusively male or female at one point, and they've switched over time.

 

[Riverwolf]

It's worse than that. High-heels, tights, nigh-all fashion has been exclusively male or female at one point, and they've switched over time.

As I understand it, pink used to be a MANLY color, because pink is just light-red, and red means BLOOD, which means WARRIOR which means MAN.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Alright, I know someone out there is gonna faint or crap his pants because Rival is saying this, but it concerns me.

Why does seeing a man wearing a dress and lipstick bother us? We see women in trousers, skirts, dresses, dungarees, shorts, with or without makeup, whatever they want; but the minute a man walks down the street in a skirt and lipgloss he's standing out?

Does not compute.

Wipes away the stains...

I've never really understood it myself; but then I've also never really thought about it. I suspect it's to do with society's gender norms and conflating femininity with timidity, submissiveness, quiet & overall weakness. If a woman dresses like a man then that means she must be strong, she wants to be masculine; she's aggressive, loud and competitive; she wants to be one of the boys!!! And she wants to get ahead in life. On the flip side: "Hey look at that guy who's made up like a woman. Let's laugh at him because he's a *****!! What a weak-*** ******! I bet he ****s himself from real men, ahahaha! Or maybe he's into real men (if you know what I mean) and that's why he dresses like that!"

The strangest part of all is drag queens make me as uncomfortable as all Hades and I think patriarchal gender norms are complete BS, as you know. The cognitive dissonance makes it even more uncomfy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Doesn't make any sense. It's completely arbitrary.

 

[Nietzsche]

As I understand it, pink used to be a MANLY color, because pink is just light-red, and red means BLOOD, which means WARRIOR which means MAN.

Which is why high-heels were manly. They started out as cavalry footwear.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

drag queens make me as uncomfortable as all Hades

Why?

 

[Rival]

Wipes away the stains...

I've never really understood it myself; but then I've also never really thought about it. I suspect it's to do with society's gender norms and conflating femininity with timidity, submissiveness, quiet & overall weakness. If a woman dresses like a man then that means she must be strong, she wants to be masculine; she's aggressive, loud and competitive; she wants to be one of the boys!!! And she wants to get ahead in life. On the flip side: "Hey look at that guy who's made up like a woman. Let's laugh at him because he's a *****!! What a weak-*** ******! I bet he ****s himself from real men, ahahaha! Or maybe he's into real men (if you know what I mean) and that's why he dresses like that!"

The strangest part of all is drag queens make me as uncomfortable as all Hades and I think patriarchal gender norms are complete BS, as you know. The cognitive dissonance makes it even more uncomfy.

I love blokes in drag, it's what made me start thinking about this.



No, my account hasn't been hacked.

 

[Demonslayer]

Why does seeing a man wearing a dress and lipstick bother us? We see women in trousers, skirts, dresses, dungarees, shorts, with or without makeup, whatever they want; but the minute a man walks down the street in a skirt and lipgloss he's standing out?

I think it's because dressing in drag goes a lot further than something like a girl wearing pants. It's the hair teased out to be like a woman, make up, heels, etc. Plus drag dress isn't just what a woman would wear...in fact it's what no sane woman would wear right? The drag show I saw in Key West, the dresses were like super over the top sequined showgirl type numbers. Heck, we'd probably be a little disturbed if we saw a woman dressed like a drag queen. In other words, I think the drag outfits are intentionally flamboyant.

I don't know that there is a female dress up situation that is quite as...involved? Every now and then you'll hear someone call a girl "butch" if she has a "man's" haircut, jeans and workboots or something like that. I think some men are almost as uncomfortable with a super "butch" girl as they are with a drag queen.

 

[Rival]

I think it's because dressing in drag goes a lot further than something like a girl wearing pants. It's the hair teased out to be like a woman, make up, heels, etc. Plus drag dress isn't just what a woman would wear...in fact it's what no sane woman would wear right? The drag show I saw in Key West, the dresses were like super over the top sequined showgirl type numbers. Heck, we'd probably be a little disturbed if we saw a woman dressed like a drag queen. In other words, I think the drag outfits are intentionally flamboyant.

I don't know that there is a female dress up situation that is quite as...involved? Every now and then you'll hear someone call a girl "butch" if she has a "man's" haircut, jeans and workboots or something like that. I think some men are almost as uncomfortable with a super "butch" girl as they are with a drag queen.

Drag isn't just drag queens. Even just seeing a bloke in a skirt makes some people squirm.

 

[Demonslayer]

Even seeing a bloke in a skirt makes some people squirm.

I hope they never visit Scotland.

But really, what men wear skirts without making it out to be a full blown drag outfit? Kilts aside of course. Are there men who just throw on a skirt that day? No make up, wig, etc? Just like, instead of jeans they go with a skirt that day? I've seen men in drag a million times, but never just a 'regular' looking guy wearing a skirt.

 

[columbus]

The strangest part of all is drag queens make me as uncomfortable as all Hades and I think patriarchal gender norms are complete BS, as you know. The cognitive dissonance makes it even more uncomfy.

I'm totally with you here.
At the moment the weather is hot here. Wearing a loose dress would completely make sense for everyone. But I could not do it. Totally arbitrary, despite my opinion that menswear is usually more comfortable and functional today it is not.

A couple of years ago I was staffing a booth at an outdoor festival. I was wearing shorts and a teeshirt, but I put on a wraparound apron to protect my clothes. Somebody pointed out that from a few feet away it appeared that I was wearing a skirt. I took off the apron and ruined my clothes because the appearance of women's clothes was more uncomfortable to me. I can't say why.
Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I hope they never visit Scotland.

But really, what men wear skirts without making it out to be a full blown drag outfit? Kilts aside of course. Are there men who just throw on a skirt that day? No make up, wig, etc? Just like, instead of jeans they go with a skirt that day? I've seen men in drag a million times, but never just a 'regular' looking guy wearing a skirt.

(No, the last one isn't a drag queen. Pavel Petel just likes to wear whatever he wants.)

 

[Augustus]

Drag isn't just drag queens. Even just seeing a bloke in a skirt makes some people squirm.

The Greeks used to mock the Persians as effeminate cissies for wearing trousers...

Real men wore short, leather skirts.

 

[Rival]

The Greeks used to mock the Persians as effeminate cissies for wearing trousers...

Real men wore short, leather skirts.

I know

 

[Augustus]

I hope they never visit Scotland.

Scottish money even features Robert the Bruce wearing a hijab

 

[Demonslayer]

(No, the last one isn't a drag queen. Pavel Petel just likes to wear whatever he wants.)

Interesting. The top picture is basically what I'm saying I haven't really seen...mostly a "normal" looking dude, just wearing a regular old skirt. I might not have even noticed him actually if he were walking along the street.

The second picture...I'm damn sure going to notice him, and I'm sure it's intentionally. Not that there's anything wrong with that but I think that pretty well defines the reason people tend to notice men dressed as women vs women dressed as men. I feel it's because most time the men dressing as women intentionally go over the top. Outside of a night club or a strip club I don't think you'd ever see a woman dressed like the dude in the second picture. It's like a Halloween costume. Whereas the first picture is really just a regular old outfit featuring a skirt.

 

[Nietzsche]

Scottish money even features Robert the Bruce wearing a hijab

That's a coif*, mother****er! Get it right!

;p


*Imagine that, no one wanted to wear steel or iron or bronze on their heads without some padding.

 

[Demonslayer]

*Imagine that, no one wanted to wear steel or iron or bronze on their heads without some padding.

Wimps!

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Let me clear up some things because I see some confusion in some of the replies here.

Drag queens and drag kings (yes, they exist, too!) are basically performance artists who create a persona or character that is often very flamboyant. They can be of any gender identity or sexual orientation. RuPaul, when he's in character, is a drag queen. Divine was a drag queen.

Then there's androgynous people, queer people or people who just enjoy presenting in a gender variant way, as their normal presentation. They're not doing it as a persona or such. It's just part of who they are. Examples of that are Jeffree Star, Boy George and Pete Burns.

Then there's people like Jaden Smith who are otherwise cisgender and heterosexual but just like to wear whatever they want.