CRT, unfalsifiable claims, and Kafka-traps

[icehorse]

Do you think law students in grad school aren't capable of grasping these sorts of concepts at that point in their education? That's where this stuff is taught.

I would agree that that's where it began. But sadly, it's escaped into the world. So now we MUST worry about how politicians and propagandists are using these incendiary ideas. It's not a good thing to give MAGA types such ideas to push back on.

 

[Orbit]

I would agree that that's where it began. But sadly, it's escaped into the world. So now we MUST worry about how politicians and propagandists are using these incendiary ideas. It's not a good thing to give MAGA types such ideas to push back on.

It actually hasn't escaped into the world. CRT is not taught at the K-12 level. What is in the world is a misrepresentation of CRT designed to shut down all teaching about race relations and racism.

 

[icehorse]

Appeasing the right wing mobs by catering to their prejudices and dumbing down the debate shouldn't be the strategy here; instilling critical thinking and teaching people to see when they are being manipulated should be the issue.

I'm 100% behind the idea that we need to teach critical thinking!!

In the meantime, we need to stop giving the MAGA types easy targets with which they can grow their base.

When liberals say words to the effect: "you are all racist" we give MAGA leaders a perfect way to strengthen and broaden their base.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I would agree that that's where it began. But sadly, it's escaped into the world. So now we MUST worry about how politicians and propagandists are using these incendiary ideas. It's not a good thing to give MAGA types such ideas to push back on.

It does appear to have escaped into the culture wars world, as unfortunate as that is.

We need to remind people who think this is being taught in little children's classrooms that they're wrong. Sorry, so sad, too bad. It's not. Actually, that should make them happy.

 

[Yerda]

I'm 100% behind the idea that we need to teach critical thinking!!

In the meantime, we need to stop giving the MAGA types easy targets with which they can grow their base.

When liberals say words to the effect: "you are all racist" we give MAGA leaders a perfect way to strengthen and broaden their base.

The correct approach to dealing with upset racists is to tell them to kindly go and stab themselves in the rectum with a sausage not to join them in creating strawmen.

 

[icehorse]

The correct approach to dealing with upset racists is to tell them to kindly go and stab themselves in the rectum with a sausage not to join them in creating strawmen.

Where did you get the idea that I'm trying to mollify racists? I'm most certainly NOT.

 

[icehorse]

We need to remind people who think this is being taught in little children's classrooms that they're wrong. Sorry, so sad, too bad. It's not. Actually, that should make them happy.

This thread seems to be bringing out the "claiming a thing does not exist" brigade

When did people start thinking that was a good strategy?

If you crank up your search engine and type the phrase: "crt taught in grade school" you will be supplied with many articles that disagree with your - unbelievably hard to prove - claim that a thing does not exist.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This thread seems to be bringing out the "claiming a thing does not exist" brigade

When did people start thinking that was a good strategy?

If you crank up your search engine and type the phrase: "crt taught in grade school" you will be supplied with many articles that disagree with your - unbelievably hard to prove - claim that a thing does not exist.

Yes, I have a book about teaching philsophy in lower grades, though if you ask parents, some would object, because it is in effect teaching critical thinking and a certain kind of morality. Remember this is in Denmark.

So yes, in the USA that would end up as teaching the children nihilism, woke useless ideas and what not for some on the Right.
So yes, the age appropriate version of the pedagogy of how to act in a non-racist manner should be taught to children and yes, it connects to CRT.

But I know this is the USA so I get how it is a culture war in effect.

 

[icehorse]

Yes, I have a book about teaching philsophy in lower grades, though if you ask parents, some would object, because it is in effect teaching critical thinking and a certain kind of morality. Remember this is in Denmark.

This makes me SO happy to hear! (It's doubly good because I'm 50% Danish )

So yes, the age appropriate version of the pedagogy of how to act in a non-racist manner should be taught to children and yes, it connects to CRT.

But I know this is the USA so I get how it is a culture war in effect.

The devil is in the details. I think there ARE appropriate ways to teach kids about the problem of racism. I also think there are inappropriate ways.

I have tried to find specific curriculums and have failed. Again, the devil is in the details. But for example, I would say it's not a good idea to teach kids that they are racist.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

This makes me SO happy to hear! (It's doubly good because I'm 50% Danish )



The devil is in the details. I think there ARE appropriate ways to teach kids about the problem of racism. I also think there are inappropriate ways.

I have tried to find specific curriculums and have failed. Again, the devil is in the details. But for example, I would say it's not a good idea to teach kids that they are racist.

It is late in the state of Denmark. If I have time later, I might revisted it.

 

[YmirGF]

On this forum, you and I might largely agree. My concern is giving easy fodder to right wing propagandists.

We can see in the news that such propaganda is happening, and it's actually making racism worse, not better

I wonder how much concern about CRT is actually directed at DEI intiatives.

 

[SkepticThinker]

This thread seems to be bringing out the "claiming a thing does not exist" brigade

When did people start thinking that was a good strategy?

If you crank up your search engine and type the phrase: "crt taught in grade school" you will be supplied with many articles that disagree with your - unbelievably hard to prove - claim that a thing does not exist.

I can also type "the world is flat" into Google and find all kinds of people who are convinced the world is flat, even though it isn't.

 

[YmirGF]

I can also type "the world is flat" into Google and find all kinds of people who are convinced the world is flat, even though it isn't.

Jeez, Louise. Next you are gonna tell me the moon ain't made of cheese! Pffft.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Jeez, Louise. Next you are gonna tell me the moon ain't made of cheese! Pffft.

It is. And it's gruyere. At least, that's what I read somewhere.

 

[YmirGF]

It is. And it's gruyere. At least, that's what I read somewhere.

Yeah, I saw a thread about it on 4chan, so it must be true.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Yeah, I saw a thread about it on 4chan, so it must be true.

See, you get it!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I would agree that that's where it began. But sadly, it's escaped into the world. So now we MUST worry about how politicians and propagandists are using these incendiary ideas. It's not a good thing to give MAGA types such ideas to push back on.

That's a group that largely still pushes back againat evolution. They're going to twist and spin the world to fit their backwards views of the world anyways amd will continue, as they have, to accept such things as they really are.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

When liberals say words to the effect: "you are all racist" we give MAGA leaders a perfect way to strengthen and broaden their base.

That's a MAGA Conservative titty twister of what CRT actually is, and they are dead set on believing that's what it says.

 

[metis]

(It's doubly good because I'm 50% Danish )

Thus, not good enough to be a Swede, eh?

 

[SomeRandom]

Agreed. That said, some claims are more incendiary than others. Should we fight racism? Of course!

But should we make sweeping claims about how everyone is complicit? Probably not, not if we want to win hearts and minds.

We need to make it a little harder for the propagandists to twist our words.

I agree and sort of disagree.
Yes we should absolutely fight racism and I can agree with you that saying everyone is complicit isn’t going to win popularity contests anytime soon.
I can certainly see that turning people off.

But if our complicity (even if it’s unintentional) is part of the system that we’re fighting against then it is the reality that we have to accept as well. Otherwise how can we fight it effectively?
Hmm perhaps have that be more inner knowledge and not broadcast it straight away?

As for making it more difficult for propagandists to twist our words, again strongly agree.
But and this might be my more cynical nature peering through, I’m not sure how. Like I said, you could effectively say that you like seeing little kittens being saved from trees and that statement will be weaponised against you.

Look at the term “woke” or actual legitimate medical terms like “triggered” (a term common in psychology fields and more specifically circles treating actual trauma)
Both are commonly weaponised by the alt right all the time.
I used to run in those circles, not really understanding the implications, back in the day. I watched it happen in real time. It was actually kind of fascinating.
(Course they didn’t call themselves the “alt right” back then. And not being American I was largely unfamiliar with their politics. But still. That was my error. One that I am very repentant of.)
Like you could admire the work of like firefighters or something and it will be used against us!
Unfortunately there are those who are absolutely convinced that monsters of their own creations are real. And there’s not a whole lot the “other side” can do to change their minds.