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crucifiction

M

meee223

Member
Why did Jesus carry his own cross? He knew they were going to crucify him, so he was going to die anyway. He could have refused to carry his cross. What could the Romans have done if he refuses? Kill him, beat him? What did it really matter if he was going to be killed anyway?
 
Scott1

Scott1

Well-Known Member
meee223 said:
Why did Jesus carry his own cross? He knew they were going to crucify him, so he was going to die anyway. He could have refused to carry his cross. What could the Romans have done if he refuses? Kill him, beat him? What did it really matter if he was going to be killed anyway?
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You'd be suprised what people will do under duress.... I can tell you from experience (Panama, Somalia, Iraq) that in a few short moments of intense pain a person will do just about anything they are forced to do. Putting a cross on your back (and Jesus did fall three times and had a bit of help too) is really low on the list of horrible things I could force a person to do. :eek:
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Scott1 said:
You'd be suprised what people will do under duress.... I can tell you from experience (Panama, Somalia, Iraq) that in a few short moments of intense pain a person will do just about anything they are forced to do. Putting a cross on your back (and Jesus did fall three times and had a bit of help too) is really low on the list of horrible things I could force a person to do. :eek:
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Duress is duress. The Romans would have been perfectly happy to beat him to death on the spot. It was customary on the Eastern Front of the Second World War for POW's to be forced to dig their own graves. It's like the prisoner offering to teacfh the king's horse to sing hymns of praise to the king. Most will put off death in the hope that a miracle would happen to save them.

Regards,
Scott
 
Popeyesays

Popeyesays

Well-Known Member
Scott1 said:
I disagree.... bodily injury/rape/death/torture are reacted to differently ... and differently by every person.

What does this have to do with the question mee223 asked?
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Duress is duress and it takes many forms. Jesus was ordered to carry His own cross, this was common in Roman executiovil and martial.

Ther are lots of instances where mob assassins have victims dig their own graves. Same thing. If one can buy a few more minutes, maybe a rescue will come.

The Romans were under the obligation to execute Him, He could cooperate and they would execute Him, or He could refuse to move from the spot where He stood and been beaten to death.

The other thing is Jesus was under obligation to fulfill certain prophecies as most Christians see it. He hadn't finished yet.

When the Bab was to be executed b y being hung up from a spike by ropes so hundreds of soldiers could shoot him to death, He told the jailers that He was not yet finished dictating a letter to His secretary, and no power on earth could harm Him until He was finished with His task. They carried Him out to the barracks square hung Him from a rope and 700 muskets fired. When the smoke cleared the Bab was nowhere to be seen and the first bullet had cut the rope and dropped Him unharmed to the ground.

A frantic search was begun, the regiment which tried to execute Him refused to do the deed a second time, another regiment was broughtr to the barracks to perform the firing squad. The B ab was found in His cell dictating a letter to His secretary. He turned to the jailers and said, "Do with me what you will, my task is finished." They repeated the process and shot Him to death.

The hand of God? Probably, just like the Hand of God moved over Jesus at His death.

Regards,
Scott
 
Scuba Pete

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus' side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. NIV

One of the most tell tale signs of death is lividity or hypostasis: the separation of blood into serum and red blood cells. When circulation stops the heavier platelets sink through the serum giving the illusion of "blood and water". This occurs at a minimum of twenty minutes AFTER the heart stops. Lividity is a contraindication for even giving CPR.

I have to ponder the motivation for these types of discussions. They claim to point out inconsistencies and are much more like a witch hunt: looking for some way to discredit Christianity. Why else would they overlook such a salient fact?
 
M

meee223

Member
Popeyesays said:
Duress is duress and it takes many forms. Jesus was ordered to carry His own cross, this was common in Roman executiovil and martial.

Ther are lots of instances where mob assassins have victims dig their own graves. Same thing. If one can buy a few more minutes, maybe a rescue will come.

The Romans were under the obligation to execute Him, He could cooperate and they would execute Him, or He could refuse to move from the spot where He stood and been beaten to death.

The other thing is Jesus was under obligation to fulfill certain prophecies as most Christians see it. He hadn't finished yet.

When the Bab was to be executed b y being hung up from a spike by ropes so hundreds of soldiers could shoot him to death, He told the jailers that He was not yet finished dictating a letter to His secretary, and no power on earth could harm Him until He was finished with His task. They carried Him out to the barracks square hung Him from a rope and 700 muskets fired. When the smoke cleared the Bab was nowhere to be seen and the first bullet had cut the rope and dropped Him unharmed to the ground.

A frantic search was begun, the regiment which tried to execute Him refused to do the deed a second time, another regiment was broughtr to the barracks to perform the firing squad. The B ab was found in His cell dictating a letter to His secretary. He turned to the jailers and said, "Do with me what you will, my task is finished." They repeated the process and shot Him to death.

The hand of God? Probably, just like the Hand of God moved over Jesus at His death.

Regards,
Scott
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I'm not familiar with this. Who is B ab? Is this a historical fact? Thanks
 
P

Promulgatious

Member
God turns all evil to good. The evil in the hearts of those who did the deed is turned to the good for the greater number, of course that it only my take on it..
 
EtuMalku

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
meee223 said:
Why did Jesus carry his own cross? He knew they were going to crucify him, so he was going to die anyway. He could have refused to carry his cross. What could the Romans have done if he refuses? Kill him, beat him? What did it really matter if he was going to be killed anyway?
Click to expand...
I believe anyone being crucified had to carry their own cross, nothing special that Yeshua supposedly carried his own.
 
M

meee223

Member
Scott1 said:
You'd be suprised what people will do under duress.... I can tell you from experience (Panama, Somalia, Iraq) that in a few short moments of intense pain a person will do just about anything they are forced to do. Putting a cross on your back (and Jesus did fall three times and had a bit of help too) is really low on the list of horrible things I could force a person to do. :eek:
Click to expand...

Yes, but we're talking about Jesus. Surely he wouldn't be like ordinary men regarding something like this. He would be one that I think should have been able to refuse to carry his cross. Sometimes I wonder why he didn't heave it with all the strength he could muster at a Roman soldier?
 
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