Darwin is tricky

[painted wolf]

I highly suggest you read this one. It talks about entropy and how
http://xxx.lanl.gov/ftp/arxiv/papers/0807/0807.0892.pdf

Entropy may increase over eons by
proliferating and diversifying non-coding sequences as long
as the organism has mechanism to access and devour free
energy. In other words, the organism is just ‘fit’ to maintain
and grow an extensive genome.

wa:do

*I've bookmarked this one so that I can print it out and read it more closely later.

 

[Bishadi]

so far the first paper is about modeling yeast division.
Nothing about entropy.

are you going to screw up every thread with entropy?

If everything was heading towards chaos, who would be evolving with Darwin and the gang.....?

Sanchez is about showing evolution supporting Darwin in a form addressing genetic progressions.

Keep up

 

[painted wolf]

so how does it support your position?

please explain. (because from here you are arguing against Sanchez)

wa:do

 

[painted wolf]

I suggest this paper for reading as well: http://lanl.arxiv.org/PS_cache/q-bio/pdf/0703/0703021v1.pdf

The Origin of 2 Sexes Through Optimization of
Recombination Entropy Against Time and Energy
Bo Deng1
Abstract: Sexual reproduction in Nature requires two sexes, which raises the question why
the reproductive scheme did not evolve to have three or more sexes. Here we construct a
constrained optimization model based on the communication theory to analyze trade-offs
among reproductive schemes with arbitrary number of sexes. More sexes on one hand lead to
higher reproductive diversity, but on the other hand incur greater cost in time and energy for
reproductive success. Our model shows that the two-sexes reproduction scheme maximizes
the recombination entropy-to-cost ratio, and hence is the optimal solution to the problem.

and another: http://lanl.arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0806/0806.0186v1.pdf
Stochastic Dynamical Structure (SDS) of Nonequilibrium
Processes in the Absence of Detailed Balance. IV:
Emerging of Stochastic Dynamical Equalities and Steady
State Thermodynamics from Darwinian Dynamics

The evolutionary dynamics first conceived by Darwin and Wallace, referring to as
Darwinian dynamics in the present paper, has been found to be universally valid in
biology. The statistical mechanics and thermodynamics, while enormously successful
in physics, have been in an awkward situation of wanting a consistent dynamical
understanding. Here we present from a formal point of view an exploration of the
connection between thermodynamics and Darwinian dynamics and a few related
topics

wa:do

ps... the OP was about why entropy was bad for evolution. I am providing evidence against the OP.

 

[Bishadi]

ps... the OP was about why entropy was bad for evolution. I am providing evidence against the OP.

enjoy the idea you reading new material

funny item to point out is notice how much work is occurring all over the work on 'doubts' of entropy, and how evolution does shares a progress that opposes many of the laws...

as well look at all the work in entanglement; the new courses all over the country, the new work all over the world.....

would you believe it

kind of funny how these items are the core as to what will begin the paradigm shift

 

[Tau]

are you going to screw up every thread with entropy?

If everything was heading towards chaos, who would be evolving with Darwin and the gang.....?

Sanchez is about showing evolution supporting Darwin in a form addressing genetic progressions.

Keep up

1.
Life can only exist if there is a source of energy to sustain it.
The entropy of the Sun sustains almost all Earth life.
While life itself creates order from seeming disorder, this is only temporarily possible at the expense of the Sun or other energy source, moreover everytime energy is transferred from system to another there is a loss of energy and life is no exception, as biomass pyramids reveal.

2.
The energy required to preserve/maintain/modify the genetic information contained within DNA is also supplied by the Sun (ultimately).

The Sun converts it's mass into energy via thermonuclear fusion (1st law of TD) and then radiates this energy in various forms into space (2nd law of TD)

The Sun is losing mass,
@ 4.3 Billion Kg per second in fact.

Life and Order depends upon a source of entropy, therefore life
obeys the laws of Physics like any inorganic machine would.

Everything is heading towards Chaos.

Eventually the stars will die, the galaxies diffuse, the protons decay, until all there is
left of the universe is a cold dead sea of subatomic particles.

Life is complexity pooling and storing lost energy, whilst transferring it around a dynamic
ecology within intricate food webs, there is no violation of thermodynamics.
Life is like a dam drawing power from the manipulation of energy flow.

 

[Bishadi]

1.
Life can only exist if there is a source of energy to sustain it.

And from the 'entangled' environment is where it comes from; nothing magical about it.

The entropy of the Sun sustains almost all Earth life.

What entropy; you are stating nothing of the system like how all the mass accumulated to fullfill that single system but instead, the entropic system of the sun is 'ug hot, must be getting colder, ah sunset, cooler... um nice.. make law what go up must come down'

but does your system include accretion?

yes or no.....

While life itself creates order from seeming disorder, this is only temporarily possible

So what. It is occuring, so part one is to say, hey... the law seems to be 'abused by living structures'..

2.
The energy required to preserve/maintain/modify the genetic information contained within DNA is also supplied by the Sun (ultimately).

So basically all life is from 'light'..... kind of common sense, ya tink?

The Sun converts it's mass into energy via thermonuclear fusion (1st law of TD) and then radiates this energy in various forms into space (2nd law of TD)

Sounds like basics again in a philosophical frame but the math don't work...

as well the 'phenomenon' of nuclear fission/fussion of stars is incomplete....

ie.... the earth is also with a nuclear reactions within its core and it ain't because of gravity 'intensity'... as stars are 'thought' to work......

nor is the earth's 'heat' a remnant as on a 'cooling' trend from the earth's formation

The Sun is losing mass,
@ 4.3 Billion Kg per second in fact.

per math based in theory, not fact

Life and Order depends upon a source of entropy, therefore life

obeys the laws of Physics like any inorganic machine would.

the world has had major extinction but still here...... seems 'life' has been kicking chaos off the charts as even 'maxwell smart' would appreciate....

Eventually the stars will die,

based on your comprehension or someone else's opinion?

the galaxies diffuse,

not with all that dark matter/energy; now created based on the data recorded and Virial theorem's predictions....

which means what that math suggesting chaos, predicted a spiral pattern to the galaxies with a defined curve; which does not match what they see from the stars and galaxies; so they created dark m/e..

you are working off old material there; try updating

the protons decay,

billions of dollars in experiments; haven't seen one yet....

Where were we? Oh ya..... Evolution and Darwin.....

Life abuses entropy!

If we are living forms; do we 'do' based on our accord; impose to the environment and take what nourishment we want?

And in reality, since all life is based on the energy (light) upon mass, then the same set of rules governing our 'intent' to continue, also work at the very small in which the properties of light, share how this mechanism works.

Biggest problem in them in biology work with + and - potential differences of chemical structures and really have no clue about the properties of the energy itself.

So this thread has turned into a debate on what someone calls simple common sense, and what another tries to impose as scientific law.

Don't know about you but it seems any progress of knowledge ever upon this earth always came from them who don't accept old ideas just because they are told too.

Hence why we Honor Darwin himself; for simply being honest over accepting pure ignorance.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Life abuses entropy!

So there!

 

[Bishadi]

So there!

be careful with accepting the Life abuses Entropy; haven't you seen all the idiots who doubt what they see as common sense.

it is as simple as realizing 2 heads are better than one......

 

[Tau]

Bishadi

I don't think anyone understands what you are saying, when you get your nobel peace prize then maybe that will change, until then......uhuh.

Still its good to be interested and thats the main thing.

 

[Tau]

per math based in theory, not fact

Well then pray enlighten me and the rest of the world with the correct figure and how you obtained it.

Bishadi does not think the Sun converts mass into energy at the rate as calculated by physicists.

 

[Bishadi]

Well then pray enlighten me and the rest of the world with the correct figure and how you obtained it.

The figures come from addressing the properties of energy (light) and the radius based from the em spectrem.

There is a pie to m,e and t.... and that is where the foundation is returned to a sincgle script.

It was obtained or bumped into by a kid almost 30 years back. Submitted in application to the exchange of neurons (dentrites); a physics representation to a biological framework. It was rejected and rudely addressed; so all accedemic studies within any institutional confines were eliminated; and a promise to existence (God) if you will that over the course of life studing and assessment will be made so that true understanding can be made; of no bias, of no complacency to 'uncertainties' and definitely no one will own or be able to oppress the development.

and that at 40, then the writting begins.... we be 42 and having a blast; see what is happening all over the world... please don't think you are the only lucky ones to read how good looking I am.... i bug every body with my arrogance (and good looks)

Did I know at the puppy age what it all meant and how it was going to pan out? NO... as the only intent was to share absolute truth in the sense that no kid ever has to grown not comprehending what makes them alive. all any kid ever wants is the truth; and when I bumped into the math, I did not know, then, it was what Einstein, the whole world and even to you, are all seeking....

Bishadi does not think the Sun converts mass into energy at the rate as calculated by physicists.

True statement! "at the rate"...... I, 100% agree...... as until any physicist or mathematician attempts it, they must also express the entangled environment as well...

and please someone share with Tau how the 2nd law is what ruined Planck?

 

[Tau]

The figures come from addressing the properties of energy (light) and the radius based from the em spectrem.

There is a pie to m,e and t.... and that is where the foundation is returned to a sincgle script.

It was obtained or bumped into by a kid almost 30 years back. Submitted in application to the exchange of neurons (dentrites); a physics representation to a biological framework. It was rejected and rudely addressed; so all accedemic studies within any institutional confines were eliminated; and a promise to existence (God) if you will that over the course of life studing and assessment will be made so that true understanding can be made; of no bias, of no complacency to 'uncertainties' and definitely no one will own or be able to oppress the development.

and that at 40, then the writting begins.... we be 42 and having a blast; see what is happening all over the world... please don't think you are the only lucky ones to read how good looking I am.... i bug every body with my arrogance (and good looks)

Did I know at the puppy age what it all meant and how it was going to pan out? NO... as the only intent was to share absolute truth in the sense that no kid ever has to grown not comprehending what makes them alive. all any kid ever wants is the truth; and when I bumped into the math, I did not know, then, it was what Einstein, the whole world and even to you, are all seeking....

True statement! "at the rate"...... I, 100% agree...... as until any physicist or mathematician attempts it, they must also express the entangled environment as well...

and please someone share with Tau how the 2nd law is what ruined Planck?

Please answer the original question.

At what rate is the Sun converting mass to energy Bishadi?

 

[Bishadi]

Please answer the original question.

At what rate is the Sun converting mass to energy Bishadi?

what are you saying? That you are trying everything in the world to comprehend why Darwin has done well in conveying evolution and you understand that in order for evolution to work; that the 2nd law of thermodynamics may not be entirely true

and if I post the rate of exchange for the suns equilibrium, you will then be whole?

Or let me guess, you are so frustrated that unless someone else approves and tells you my math is correct, you are just through with it all? and you will stick you what you know until someone else, tells you so?

 

[Tau]

what are you saying? That you are trying everything in the world to comprehend why Darwin has done well in conveying evolution and you understand that in order for evolution to work; that the 2nd law of thermodynamics may not be entirely true

and if I post the rate of exchange for the suns equilibrium, you will then be whole?

Or let me guess, you are so frustrated that unless someone else approves and tells you my math is correct, you are just through with it all? and you will stick you what you know until someone else, tells you so?

Please demonstrate your math with the solution to my question.

At what rate does the Sun convert mass into energy?

Your evasiveness is frustrating, thats about it.

 

[painted wolf]

until you show us some math we have no reason to think you aren't just blowing smoke.

we have asked for it on several occasions and you have always dodged or blustered.
You claim that you know the math... the formulas that prove your position.

We have no reason to believe you without them. (as there are plenty of formulas the refute you.)

wa:do

 

[Bishadi]

until you show us some math we have no reason to think you aren't just blowing smoke.

on this thread along there is enough for you to figure it out.

we have asked for it on several occasions and you have always dodged or blustered. You claim that you know the math... the formulas that prove your position.

If you go back and read through this thread alone; you could have written it down and completed what needs to be done.

I shared where to begin, I shared what to look for, I shared the form to energy, and I share how to addresss the environment.

What you each want is something you can take to someone else to tell you it is either correct or incorrect..... but the math and comprehension is not what you want as it is that either of you would rather try and put me in my place than anything on this forum.

We have no reason to believe you without them. (as there are plenty of formulas the refute you.)

you have no reason for anything but making yourselves feel good......

this thread was to provide ideas for people to over-come doubt of evolution and how Darwins work.... shared a true pattern of how life developed between mass and energy....

To keep it simple if either of you could demonstrate your capability of comprehending what you represent; I would have already walked you each through it...

but I have nothing to prove to you.... or even interested in either of your opinions because me and the rest on this site can all see, you are each predetermined within you own mind..... no integrity! Such that to share common sense; simply does not work.. so then no cents of value can be offered

 

[Tau]

on this thread along there is enough for you to figure it out.

If you go back and read through this thread alone; you could have written it down and completed what needs to be done.

I shared where to begin, I shared what to look for, I shared the form to energy, and I share how to addresss the environment.

What you each want is something you can take to someone else to tell you it is either correct or incorrect..... but the math and comprehension is not what you want as it is that either of you would rather try and put me in my place than anything on this forum.




you have no reason for anything but making yourselves feel good......

this thread was to provide ideas for people to over-come doubt of evolution and how Darwins work.... shared a true pattern of how life developed between mass and energy....

To keep it simple if either of you could demonstrate your capability of comprehending what you represent; I would have already walked you each through it...

but I have nothing to prove to you.... or even interested in either of your opinions because me and the rest on this site can all see, you are each predetermined within you own mind..... no integrity! Such that to share common sense; simply does not work.. so then no cents of value can be offered

Or in other words.

'I havent got a clue what i am talking about so I will spout out yet more unintelligible nonsense'

You can't answer my question because you can't not because you don't want to.

Whatever Bishadi, I am no longer interested in anything you have to say on any matters pertaining to science.

Try something else mate.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

but I have nothing to prove to you.... or even interested in either of your opinions because me and the rest on this site can all see, you are each predetermined within you own mind..... no integrity! Such that to share common sense; simply does not work.. so then no cents of value can be offered

There are few participants on this cite who so naturally combine scholarship and integrity as does painted wolf. The counterposition between the two of you is stunning.

 

[painted wolf]

So in other words... none of this math proof you keep talking about.
Because so far I've only seen formulas that support life not violating thermodynamics.

If I had solid evidence to the contrary... ie, not rambling suppositions but solid formulas.

wa:do