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Darwin's Illusion

PureX

Veteran Member
Darwin's Illusion

Darwin believed that life can be explained by natural selection based on his expectation that organic life was exceedingly simple.
No, Darwin did not believe that. In fact, Darwin did not address nor investigate the origin or fundamental nature of life on Earth at all. Darwin was specifically and exclusively investigating how the differences and similarities within and between various species occurred. And his theory was that they occurred through a process of evolution caused by the necessities of environmental circumstance and selective procreation.
He lived in a time when people believed a brood of mice could suddenly appear in a basket of dirty clothes. In other words Darwin was under the illusion that life could appear spontaneously under the right conditions.
Having no understanding or theory about how life originates, he did not offer us any. Nor would he have "believed in" any.
Based on this ignorance, ...
Well, you're going to lose your credibility right there. Basing any proposition on someone else's ignorance is sure to fail.
he crafted an explanation for variation within a species, and formulated a theory explaining the process whereby life could arise from nonliving matter and mutate to the variety of living entities we see today.
Darwin never proposed any theories about how life originates from non-living matter. He never even investigated that question. And he did not recognize the idea of "mutation" as a part of the evolution of species. We discovered genetic mutation much later, after Darwin was long dead.
It is postulated that this narrative has been overwhelmingly accepted in educated circles for more than a century even though the basic mechanisms of organic life remained a mystery until several decades ago- as a convenient alternative to belief in a creator.
The theory of evolution has nothing whatever to do with anyone's believing or not believing in a "creator". It's just a theory about how life forms evolved to embody so many similar and so many different characteristics. It's a theory of FORM, not a theory of origin.
After 1950 biochemistry has come to understand that living matters is more complex than Darwin could ever have dreamed of.

So, in view of this, what happened to Darwin allegedly elegant and simple idea ?
It has been more clearly and thoroughly tested and expressed, and it has remained a functionally predictive, and therefor a scientifically active theory.
Although not a single sector of Darwinic evolution can offer uncontested proof that it is nothing more than a imaginative theory it is acclaimed by mainstream scientists as a science.
All scientific theories remain theories. They don't get "proved" or "disproved". They are tested and found to be either functionally predictive, or not predictive. If they are predictive, then scientists will continue to find new ways of expanding and testing their predictions, to learn from the results.
Lynn Margulis a distinguished University Professor of Biology puts it this way:
"History will ultimately judge neo-Darwinism as a minor twentieth-century religious sect within the sprawling religious persuasion of Anglo-Saxon biology"
She asks any molecular biologists to name a single, unambiguous example of the formation of a new species by the accumulation of mutations. Her challenge to date is still unmet.
She says " proponents of the standard theory [of evolution] wallow in their zoological, capitalistic, competitive, cost-benefit interpretation of Darwin..."
Unfortunately, she should have stuck to biology instead of religious politics and soothsaying about the future.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Science doesn't work by narrowing things down to a single possibility. This is a great way to think or reason but it is not science. You can think like this to invent hypothesis or experiment but NOT theory.
That was a response to, "Try this. Basically, you have a series of extinct creatures ranging in age from older forms that more closely resemble furry creatures that walked on all fours to newer, more whalelike forms. No other mechanism that could account for that apart from natural selection acting on genetic variation has ever been suggested. Creationism doesn't predict or explain finding ancient, extinct forms."

I don't see how your response relates to mine. In fact, I can't tell that you read my comment. You asked for evidence of whale evolution and I gave you a link and explained the fossil evidence suggested, and that it wasn't accounted for by evolution's only alternative, a deceptive intelligent designer. There's the answer. If you'd care to tell me what part of that is in error and why, we can discuss our differences of opinion and perhaps resolve them, but answers like that one don't help.

Let me share something I wrote earlier today on another thread, where another poster was touting Christian morality, to which I gave about a dozen examples of moral failings of Jesus in the Gospels, only one of which was addressed - the one where Jesus kills a herd of pigs. I only mention it because it outlines a hierarchy of dissent from rebuttal to lower forms of disputation:

You'd need to address all of them to rebut the claim that this ethical system is flawed, not just one. If you don't want to do that, address three or four of the most egregious ones, not the one about disrespect for personal property. Why won't you give a response to all of them? Isn't defending your faith important enough, assuming that you can?
I saw a similar response on a thread asking whether Christmas and Easter were adaptations of pagan holidays, and about a dozen examples of pagan influences (yule logs, tinsel, flocking, Santa and reindeer, eggs, bunnies), and the guy chose to address one of them as if that were a rebuttal. We also see this with the response to claims that the Bible contradicts itself or that biblical prophecy is weak if several examples are provided.
But it is the best one can do short of a complete rebuttal - a rebuttal of one point. It goes downhill from there. Next worse is simply giving what you believe instead without explaining why you feel what you reject cannot be correct. Next least effective is to simply dissent: "That's not what I choose to believe." An ad lapidem fallacy comes next ("Anybody with commonsense can see that your argument is absurd"), and the lowest rung is the dismissive insult, like your first answer: "Wisdom is too high for a fool"

What you have done is give what you believe instead without attempting to rebut what you reject.
You are making an assumption that consilience shows survival of the fittest and that this is the mechanism of change in species.
I am saying that consilience supports the theory.
If evolution wanted such "fitness" then why would the species change? Why wouldn't every individual be exactly alike (much as Darwin assumed) except for its sex?
Species change because genomes and habitats change. Also, such a genetically homogeneous species would be eliminated by disease.
I maintain consilience "proves" my theory because it has more experiment, observation, and logic within it than Darwin's does.
Your hypothesis explains and predicts nothing. If you disagree, please rebut. If you think the comment is wrong for a reason, you shouldbe able to produce the argument that falsifies it.
You can't prove any scientific theory.
Several (maybe all) scientific theories are correct in the main beyond reasonable doubt, including evolutionary theory.
There is and never will be such a thing as "settled science".
Perhaps not in your estimation, but there are countless ideas that are demonstrably correct and for which no serious dissent exists in the field. Opinions from outside the field aren't relevant. The creationists would argue that evolution isn't settled science and produce pseudoscientific apologetics, but the scientific community isn't looking at them or responding to them.
So now you are an expert on the will of God also.
That was in response to, "Creationism doesn't predict or explain finding ancient, extinct forms." Once again, I don't know how you think that response relates to my comment. So perhaps you can address what I wrote with, "I agree" or "I disagree because [rebuttal here]"
Perhaps God just wants us to strive to understand our universe.
Are you saying that creationism predicts finding ancient, extinct creatures? If not, you aren't disagreeing with me.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
We notice that the professors who claim to
have found the big flaw in evolution are always
described ( by creos) as brilliant" " distinguished",
or betimes as " genius".

Their big flaw is always the same: no data.
Funnier still is that those professors propose a theory of evolution based on natural processes and not a default personal belief.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Funnier still evolution never actually happened haha
I've no idea what point you are trying to make using the efforts that you do.

The theory of evolution is a sound scientific theory that has the support of evidence. It explains the phenomena of evolution that we observe. It is the best, but not the ultimate, explanation that we have to date.

Nothing claimed here by those outside understanding has had any impact on it.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Funnier still evolution never actually happened haha
Though I feel I am witness to the development of a body of evidence that would say otherwise, perhaps this will help you understand.

Evolution is the observed phenomena.

The theory of evolution is the scientific explanation for those observations.

These are two different things.

The same is true of the phenomena of gravity and the theories attempting to explain gravity. Or germ theory of disease. Or...any scientific theory.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Funnier still evolution never actually happened haha
Of course, if this claim is true to the nature of the claims routinely unleashed on here against science, there will be no support forthcoming. Just repetition.
 

Jimmy

King Phenomenon
Of course, if this claim is true to the nature of the claims routinely unleashed on here against science, there will be no support forthcoming. Just repetition.
Well when you believe existence began around 1980 the 4.5 billion years of evolution become irrelevant. All the science is cool as hell though and probably would’ve happened if god had allowed that time to exist at all
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Well when you believe existence began around 1980 the 4.5 billion years of evolution become irrelevant. All the science is cool as hell though and probably would’ve happened if god had allowed that time to exist at all
1966. The universe was created in 1966. Star Trek came out.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Well when you believe existence began around 1980 the 4.5 billion years of evolution become irrelevant. All the science is cool as hell though and probably would’ve happened if god had allowed that time to exist at all
I thought it was created last Thursday.
 
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