I don't believe in ducks.
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Darwin's Illusion
- Thread starter Neuropteron
- Start date
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
When it comes to humans, modern humans are not exactly under the natural selection spoken of by Darwin. Humans are more under manmade or artificial selection due to will and choice.
Do you think think the trans fad, that uses propaganda conditioning in school, apart from natural or biological parents, medicine and surgery is connected to natural selection? A change does occurs, that is sort of like an evolutionary event; forms a new type of cyborg human. Humans can select to ignore their DNA; biological sex, in favor of an artificial or imaginary image of themselves.
This all began with the formation of the human ego at about the start of civilization; Adam and Eve. Adam and Eve symbolized the first two humans, who transition away from natural selection; fall from paradise, in favor of will and choice; man made selection based on knowledge of good and evil; favorable and unfavorable. This goes beyond the DNA, since this is not natural selection which is geared to the DNA. It s connected to the brain and consciousness; consciousness, with the ego, is more than the sum of its genetic parts.
Darwin had to go to a remote place on earth; Galapagos, to witness genuine natural selection, untouched by humans and man made selection. He could not develop his theory in England, since that Island nation had been exploited and developed by man made selection for thousands of years. By Darwin's time flora and fauna from all over the world could be found in British botanical gardens; human selection. These new species to England did not evolve there but were chosen to be there, by will, choice and money. Humans can ruin natural selection by destroying eco-systems and setting up a condo community.
Genesis is useful because it describes the start of the second phase of evolution; man made selection that is not exactly natural, but often contrived and artificial. We can add steroids, that the human body does not make on its own and evolve into muscle heads, where the body has more muscle mass than the DNA would suggest. This is not natural selection, but it is man made selection.
This is where science falls short. It only preaches natural selection, but ignore will, choice and artificial selection. It needs an update where DNA and natural selection branch and man made selection appears.
Yes, some 'artificial' influences such as technology allow many to survive and possibly reproduce that would not by natural selection, This is not the primary issue of the sciences of evolution. We are still subject to selective processes of evolution and have evolved in recent history.
You are injecting an extreme religious bias here against trans and homosexuals. The issue of the rights of trans and homosexuals is more a human rights issue in contemporary society. In the past, they would have been persecuted, executed, and burned at the stake by ancient tribal religious values. The existence of trans and homosexuals does not contribute to the evolution of humans by natural selection one way or the other.
The human ego has been a part of humanity as long as humans have been human. This like the above is subject to your religious bias and not related to whether the sciences of evolution are valid or not
Darwin made his first observations of evolution in the British Isles. Yrs, contemporary humans are guilty of the above in the world today and it may greatly negatively our future existence.
I do not remotely consider Genesis useful for any purpose, It is an ancient tribal myth that plagues humanity with false notions of the Fall and Original Sin. Humans have always been human for more than a million years.
You looking at science through a narrow window of extreme religious bias. Science deals with a lot more concerning the nature of being human than natural selection.
The history of religions and their conflicts claiming manifest destiny and righteous dominion over the earth has led to negating human negative impacts of overpopulation, global warming, and environmental devastation.
Actually, science has been addressing the manmade influence on ourselves and the world, but the religious opposition to science does not contribute to this understanding.
This does not negate your anti-science religious agenda against evolution. You need to address the facts of billions of years of evolution. This post does not address that.
Again . . . What education and experience in the sciences do have to make these outrageous anti-science claims?
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Audie
Veteran Member
"All began with...ego.."
Did you make that up, or did someone
else make it up for you? It makes no sense
and you have zero evidence.
"Had to go to Galspagos".
Twaddle. Just the fact that others were
developing the same theory puts the lie to
that absurdity.
The silly idea that scientists are unaware of artifical breeding and not deeply involved is, well...
a sign of someone falling way short.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Evolution is centered on DNA, with genes passed forward by reproduction. This blending of genes and mutations lead to changes on the DNA, that become subject to natural selection. Neither of these; trans and homosexual, can reproduce and therefore are not exactly a part of natural selection and evolution. This is not a religious claim, but simple logical inference used by any rational scientist. How can you break the logic chain of the theory and say the chain is still whole? Therefore, these choices happen apart from natural selection and evolution. I am not against such behavior, but against the erroneous claim this is natural selection.
I added will and choice and artificial/man made selection to the model of evolution. This connects to human consciousness and the secondary center of the human brain; ego. It implies a secondary path for change that branched from natural selection. Both appear to occur today on earth. Under these extra constraints of the second branch, trans and homosexual is still connected, even if not a part of natural selection. It is part of the other branch.
Trans and Homosexual would not have been selected naturally, since it would be self defeating in terms of genetic transfer. Do the math, this would lead to extinction after a few generations. The blind bias of the current empirical theory does not allow it to see simple but basic paradoxes. It shushes these away with the religion card.
Water interfaces the brain and consciousness better and easier, that an organic centric approach. Water is another update that is needed in all the life sciences, if real science is important to evolution.
Casino math is another problem. It was developed for applied science and a willful and synthetic approach to extending the natural laws; man made selection. Pure science should not be using contrived math tools, unless the goal is a bureaucratic factory that makes man made political goods.
Pure science should be subject to reducible math like E=MC2. Manmade things like dice and cards can use different math, since one is not trying to claim natural. This is not about religion but a fundamental understanding of the difference between pure and applied science. Evolution is not yet pure science, but has has some casino contrived, like an offering on the free market. This is because you guys do not branch natural selection, at the right point in history, and form a new branch connected to will and choice; consciousness leading the DNA.
cladking
Well-Known Member
Then why weren't any of these "people" acting human until 40,000 years ago?
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
A science theory needs proof. How would prove natural selection in downtown London? Natural data collection in a man made environment was too easy to refute, by critics, even if the theory was correct. That much man made influence would taint any pure natural data connected to just natural evolution. Once Darwin made it to Galapagos, his data could not be refuted, since man made was not a variable.
Here is an interesting fun fact:
Darwin applied this earlier geological approach and theory, to life, and formed his thesis. He had present but he also needed the past, which he found in Galapagos.
cladking
Well-Known Member
It seems to me that "scientists" can't even see that "artificial breeding" is exactly the same thing in most cases as the "imposition of artificial bottlenecks based on consciousness"!!!! You can't see reality when your beliefs get in the way.
You can't even properly "observe" reality when it conflicts with your own beliefs.
Why do people think they know so much when history is just a long series of events showing we have been wrong about everything?
cladking
Well-Known Member
Good point.
History of geology - Wikipedia
It just stands to reason that if the earth gradually changes to accommodate stresses and forces within and without the planet then life itself must also undergo a slow evolution. No matter this isn't real because this is the 19th century perspective.
Now there appears to be evidence the universe is far older than holy writ says but just as believers don't skip a beat when it was found that the universe is apparently accelerating in its expansion they won't skip a beat now. Pressure builds on paradigms until they explode and are replaced by a new one and homo omniscience "really" does know everything once again for the twenty billionth time.
There is NO claim by science that trans and homosexuals are not involved in the process of Natural Selection because it is a fact that they no longer reproduce to any degree that influences the natural population. It is pretty much known that genetically trans and homosexuals have been a small percentage of the population in the history of humanity, and do not influence the natural selection of the overall population.
By the way, the math of Casino gambling is based on fractal math, and that is the way Casinos design their gaming and calculate their profits
The artificial influence of human technology does influence our evolution, but it is not an issue in the validity of billions of years of evolution.
Genetic trans and homosexuals are very much a part of a small fraction of the outcome of the genetics involved in the natural selection process. Read my post and respond appropriately,
Need clarification here it does not make sense in terms of science. Water is very much a part of all considerations of the sciences of evolution.
The above is unbelievably false. Science did not develop any such thing to explain anything. Casino math is in your imagination and does not exist in nature. I have had an extensive thread concerning the fact that randomness doe not occur in nature other than the timing of of individual events. Fractal math represents the patterns of the outcomes of cause-and-effect events.
The rest of this is pure imaginary foolishness.
The bold above is pure nonsense.
Dice and card outcomes is subject to the same fractal math as everything else in nature.
Your confusing and erratic responses reflect a lack of basic science and math. Again . . .
What education and experience in the sciences and math do have to make these outrageous anti-science claims?
There is no such thing as pure science. What you describe above is not the difference between basic sciences and applied science.
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There were people acting human 40,000 years ago.
Your self-imposed ignorance of science is appalling.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
We have two centers of consciousness; inner self and ego. What science calls the Evolution and natural selection of humans is connected to the inner self, which is connected to our human DNA. The inner self is the center of the human brain's genetic based operating system. The human inner self, according to the science timeline, is over 2 million years old; human nature.
The ego secondary appears much later in evolution, more in line with the first stable and persistent civilizations. Before stable civilization, the ego would phase in and out. Civilization was not natural. Earlier civilizations appear but they stall and go to decay; ego would phase out and natural would reappear, The persistent ego secondary center involves; civilization persists, will and choice appear, apart from natural instinct and the inner self.
Natural human instinct is mostly repressed, due to man made rules of social living, which were not innate; written on the DNA like the inner self. Social rules man made, by an ego and learned from outside. The Biblical claims of a new type of man; Adam, is more about the appearance of the secondary ego center appearing along with the primary. This was an evolutionary milestone whether science can see it or not.
If you wish to an experience the inner self, there is a simple experiment you can do. Don't take my word for it, but gather your own data. The ego is not the center but a satellite of the center.
All you need to do is have a friend agree to scare you, when you are not prepared. He/she can wait for several days until you are off guard. Being caught by surprise, will cause the inner self to act with reflect action, which may be awkward for the ego. The ego may scream, fall over and feel embarrassed, since it was not able to maintain the ego's social mask, when the inner self acted; air of dignity. Another part of you was not interested in saving ego face, but reacted to the situation, until the ego is aroused and became aware enough to take over; inner man.
The ego secondary appears much later in evolution, more in line with the first stable and persistent civilizations. Before stable civilization, the ego would phase in and out. Civilization was not natural. Earlier civilizations appear but they stall and go to decay; ego would phase out and natural would reappear, The persistent ego secondary center involves; civilization persists, will and choice appear, apart from natural instinct and the inner self.
Natural human instinct is mostly repressed, due to man made rules of social living, which were not innate; written on the DNA like the inner self. Social rules man made, by an ego and learned from outside. The Biblical claims of a new type of man; Adam, is more about the appearance of the secondary ego center appearing along with the primary. This was an evolutionary milestone whether science can see it or not.
If you wish to an experience the inner self, there is a simple experiment you can do. Don't take my word for it, but gather your own data. The ego is not the center but a satellite of the center.
All you need to do is have a friend agree to scare you, when you are not prepared. He/she can wait for several days until you are off guard. Being caught by surprise, will cause the inner self to act with reflect action, which may be awkward for the ego. The ego may scream, fall over and feel embarrassed, since it was not able to maintain the ego's social mask, when the inner self acted; air of dignity. Another part of you was not interested in saving ego face, but reacted to the situation, until the ego is aroused and became aware enough to take over; inner man.
False Methodological Naturalism and falsification of theories and hypothesis has absolutely nothing to do with proof. Natural selection is a falsified process in the history of life and humanity and not in downtown London. Science does not refute manmade environments.
OK?
cladking
Well-Known Member
That is exactly what I just said.
The lack of communication is willful. Every single point I make is ignored or intentionally misinterpreted. They are handwaved and used to create straw armies. They are not addressed and when they are it's an exercise in word games and twisting of definitions.
I no longer expect much else.
cladking
Well-Known Member
Believers in science do not discuss (at least in this thread) they lecture and repeat how ignorant it is to argue with the scientific scripture.
wellwisher
Well-Known Member
Applied science uses pure science like; water boils at 100C to make steam, to drive a steam engine. The first part about water is pure science; proven natural fact. The second part is contrived or done by applied science. Applied science is not trying to portray nature as it is; steam engine, but rather the goal is make up new things, often not naturally found on earth, that can make life easier or better.
The problem is if you use an applied science approach, for pure science investigations, you can make up an imaginary natural world image. This can make the pure, semi-impure or contrived. This is how science can end up with alternate theories for the same thing. Applied is practical minded more than natural minded.
Let me you give you an example. Current thinking is that diamonds form naturally when carbon is exposed to heat and pressure, for long periods of time. They are often found near volcanoes.
Applied scientists have done experiments in the lab, with an anvil pressure and high heat, to form diamonds in days. Which of the two theories; slow boat or fast boat, is correct? Nobody has ever run a 1 million year experiment to prove the slow boat status quo theory. On the other hand, manufactured diamonds are now so well made, they rival natural in both price and cut. Quick diamonds also have the preponderance of the lab data. On paper the manufactured quick boat theory wins, but this is not good for the natural diamond industry, so science holds fast, but not due to data preponderance. Contrived can game the system since applied does not have to be natural to work or appear to work.
Casino math is useful in a factory as part of quality control. But the engineers do not claim to be making natural popcorn just like Mother Nature makes. It is a factory of applied science, which is not natural. I am a little concerned that evolution and climate science is not pure, but partially contrived; applied science math overlay, sold as purely natural. I am offering two variables to clear up the mess; water and man made selection.
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Audie
Veteran Member
Fun fact:
Your first line blows your argument / credibility
out of the water
Honestly, people in America, trying
to explain science when they are clearly
unprepared to start intro to remedial general
science.
Audie
Veteran Member
The problem is as noted in my above post.
There is absolutely no evidence for your imaginary divisions in consciousness. The evidence is that humans have always been human since the first populations of humans. This view is tainted by your subjective religious view.
Again no evidence for this claim.
This reveals your religious agenda for which there is no evidence.
This would be the same for all humanity since humans were first human.
Please define your Casino science, because it is not terminology used in science and math.