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Darwin's Illusion

Neuropteron

Active Member
By verifying Darwin's predictions.
One of the first was Archaeopteryx, a transition from dinosaurs to birds, then the discovery of DNA. Not a direct prediction by Darwin himself but from evolutionary theory was Tiktaalik. The scientists predicted where to find it by knowing when it must have existed. They searched an area known to be of that age.
That is the way to confirm a theory: by looking at confirmed predictions.
(Also, every single fossil found was confirmation of evolution. And never a bunny in the pre-Cambrian.)

Hi,
This sadly does not support evolution, rather it shows the lenght evolutionist will go to support their narrative because of the following:
The recent claims that the London specimen of the Archaeopteryx is a hoax have been clarified and there would seem to be grounds for suspicion. The published work on the Berlin specimen shows that it has every indication of being a hoax of the same kind, that is, a modified genuine fossil of the Compsognathus. All four of the more recent "discoveries" are shown to be nothing more than reclassification of genuine fossils of the same small dinosaur..
 

rational experiences

Veteran Member
The conditions of life.

Water is cooled owning biology and oxygenated.

Spontaneous a word owns a two faced application..
Combustion to remove cool. Or instant by causes.

Water heated evaporates is removed in cooling until it disappears.

So it cannot be spontaneous combustion. Which science was once theoried as satanisms. Ideas versus natural forms existing.

So spontaneous as in instant presence Idealised that from another place higher than cool a body had emerged.

Eternal was the teaching.

Blue sky. Immaculate sky. Balances of living biology.

The question is before light.

Immaculate only clear thin gas encompassed stretch by infinite space. Of once hot dense gas.

Sun attack. Immaculate heavens time shifted back to dense accumulative heating cooling.

Stretch shrunk immaculate atmosphere made it denser.

That status pushed upon the pre existing eternal body. Vibrating it by pulsed forced cloud caused.

Scientist thinker aware followed that advice in thesis said cloud density caused the eternal body to release it's life spirit from its body.

As it had.

Why biology has the exact same base component spirit as it had in fact come from a higher place instant.

Oxygenating water by chemistry is how men first get oxygen. Was occurring in water before biology became present instant.

Hence as it is natural only a story and not a thesis exists.

The discussed placed exactness life is a mystery.

As getting spaces holes as human removal of mass energy removed is not any mystery. Space a hole empty of energy no mystery.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So basically everything you have claimed about what Darwin said or written, were false and made up? Or you got all that from unreliable sources from creationist propaganda media?

Have you ever bothered to study biology, read evolution yourself (eg private research on biology textbook), or just simply ask some questions from actual biologists?

Because I fine it distasteful when creationists make up all sorts false claims that are not found in biological sources, like this whole business with claiming Darwin advocating spontaneous generation.

I don’t think anyone believe that you had read any of Darwin’s works.
And what does Darwin have to do with modern biology, anyway? We've come a long way since Darwin. Do engineering students study Archimedes? Do medical students study the works of Hippocrates?
These creationists need to get over their obsession with Darwin, and, as you point out, learn some actual biology.

I often wonder how these apparently functional adults managed to get through high school biology without an iota of it sinking in.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hi,
This sadly does not support evolution, rather it shows the lenght evolutionist will go to support their narrative because of the following:
The recent claims that the London specimen of the Archaeopteryx is a hoax have been clarified and there would seem to be grounds for suspicion. The published work on the Berlin specimen shows that it has every indication of being a hoax of the same kind, that is, a modified genuine fossil of the Compsognathus. All four of the more recent "discoveries" are shown to be nothing more than reclassification of genuine fossils of the same small dinosaur..
Now you have admitted that you do not understand the basics of science and that you will believe any lie that creationists will tell you.

Archaeopteryx was never shown to be a hoax. The only liar I have heard make that claim is Kent Hovind. And they found more than one of them. Were they all hoaxes?

To date eleven examples of Archaeopteryx have been found. You should make a practice of supporting your claims with valid sources:

Archaeopteryx - Wikipedia
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hi,
That's a good question.
What's the answer? How do opponents of the modern theory of evolution propose to explain the origin of species?
followers of Darwin are constantly modefying their theory in an attempt to prove their mainstream narrative, without success.
If you mean that the theory of evolution is, as regard to many of its details, a work in progress, then that's correct ─ just as it's correct about any other scientific theory. But I'm not aware of any successful attack on the basic ideas as such ─ that all life has evolved from a common source.

For instance, 25% of the genes of slime moulds have direct equivalents in humans. How do you explain that? And having explained it, how do you demonstrate to the impartial onlooker that your explanation is correct?
Christ accurately foretold that the majority will alway follow the broad road, it leads to destruction.
You mean Trump? Putin? Bolsonaro? If so, I hope you're right.
 
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Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hi,

Yes, I've often heard this claim, never have I seen it proven.
It's a scientific theory, so it will never be proven, any more than the germ theory of disease has been proven.
However, the supporting evidence, even on microfilm, would overflow the library of congress. It dwarfs the evidence for a round Earth, or germs causing disease.

It astonishes me how anyone not living under a rock can be unaware of such a well supported, obvious, easily tested mechanism. It's the foundation of all of biology. Nothing makes sense without it.
Presumably, everyone learns how change occurred over time in middle school. Information on evolution comes from many, unrelated disciplines. Everything, from every source, points to the same processes and same natural history.

How creationists are unaware of the ubiquitous, voluminous evidence, suggests a deliberate avoidance; a refusal to look at what is on full display in front of them.

I suggest going to a library and checking out a high school biology textbook, or reviewing some YouTube videos.

Here is a good, understandable source of information, if you're really interested in this controversy. TalkOrigins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi,

A basic "proven by test" science is the 3rd law of thermodynamics, that states that no element can come into existence without a cause and that everything with time degenerates not ameliorates.

No, that is nowhere close to the third law of thermodynamics.

It isn't even close to the first two laws.

This scientific law dissproves the theory of Darwin.

Since there are six million evidences, I have difficulty in understanding that no one can give me just one example.

Well, first you have to understand what the theory says. Until that happens, you can't understand what is and what is not evidence for the theory.

Simply saying "there is so much evidence" does not answer my question.

Evidence from paleontology (fossils), from genetics (changes in gene density over time), from simulations (evolutionary programming), studies of specific populations over time (new species of lizards, for example), etc.

But, again, you need to understand what the theory says before you can understand that the evidence *is* evidence for the theory.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi,
This sadly does not support evolution, rather it shows the lenght evolutionist will go to support their narrative because of the following:
The recent claims that the London specimen of the Archaeopteryx is a hoax have been clarified and there would seem to be grounds for suspicion. The published work on the Berlin specimen shows that it has every indication of being a hoax of the same kind, that is, a modified genuine fossil of the Compsognathus. All four of the more recent "discoveries" are shown to be nothing more than reclassification of genuine fossils of the same small dinosaur..

Again, this is simply false. it was a narrative promoted by certain creationists in the 1980's and 1990's, but a study of the actual fossils shows it to be unfounded.

The reason Comsognathus is so similar to Archeopterix is *because* of evolution. Birds evolved from a certain class of dinosaurs that include Compsognathus.

Don't forget that Archeopterix had feathers, a feature that is unique to birds among modern animals.
 

Neuropteron

Active Member
I don't know what you are talking about, but that is not the third law of thermodynamics. In fact none of them say that. Perhaps you might want to get a source?

Hi,
You should know what I'm talking about,

although I'm just talking in lay-mens term, what I said is correct concerning the 2cd and 3rd law of thermodynamics.

I propose evolutionist should consider other things than just support for their unprovable theory.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same (First Law), the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time.

Jastrow went on to say, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream(God and the Astronomers, p. 116.) It seems the Cosmic Egg that was the birth of our universe logically requires a Cosmic Chicken...
 

Neuropteron

Active Member
Now you have admitted that you do not understand the basics of science and that you will believe any lie that creationists will tell you.

Archaeopteryx was never shown to be a hoax. The only liar I have heard make that claim is Kent Hovind. And they found more than one of them. Were they all hoaxes?

To date eleven examples of Archaeopteryx have been found. You should make a practice of supporting your claims with valid sources:

Archaeopteryx - Wikipedia
Hi,
The fact is since the Archaeopteryx fossil is considered controversial it cannot be used as proof for evolution.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Darwin's Illusion
Since you are at about six pages of responses now, I wanted to address the OP again. What do you really mean by Darwin's Illusion? Based on what I have read and the responses you have received, the following does not represent an illusion that Darwin was under. So you must mean something else you aren't discussing here.

Darwin believed that life can be explained by natural selection based on his expectation that organic life was exceedingly simple.
Darwin did not believe that life could be explained by natural selection. He concluded that the change in populations of living things over time (evolution) was driven by natural selection. He based this conclusion on an exceptionally robust review of the evidence he observed over many years. The theory of evolution that he proposed is not a theory of the origin of life.

On what basis do you conclude that Darwin thought that life was exceedingly simple? What relevance would his view on the complexity of life have with the validity of evolution as a phenomenon and a theory? Perhaps his favorite color was red too. So what?

He lived in a time when people believed a brood of mice could suddenly appear in a basket of dirty clothes.
So what. Some of people of the time also thought that diseases were evil spirits. What some people of Darwin's time thought has no bearing on his formulation of a theory of evolution or the validity of it.

In other words Darwin was under the illusion that life could appear spontaneously under the right conditions.
You have been shown that this statement is unsupported and there is no reason to think it correct. You have even admitted that you had no basis to include it. Why knowingly include misleading statements about a creationist concept alleging that Darwin subscribed to it? Why not base your denial on verifiable information?

Based on this ignorance, he crafted an explanation for variation within a species, and formulated a theory explaining the process whereby life could arise from nonliving matter and mutate to the variety of living entities we see today.
Incorrect. Darwin formulated no such theory of the origin of life. He formulated a theory of evolution (change in populations over time and descent with adaptation) and proposed a mechanism for the observed change in populations.

Seems like you are just smearing a man dead 140 years in hopes that smears a scientific theory that challenges some personal religious doctrines and interpretations. Darwin is recognized for his valuable contributions to science and our continuing understanding of biology. He is not seen as a prophet of some religion. We have moved on from the basis he built.

It is postulated that this narrative has been overwhelmingly accepted in educated circles for more than a century even though the basic mechanisms of organic life remained a mystery until several decades ago- as a convenient alternative to belief in a creator.
Not the narrative you have provided. Your narrative has been falsified. The actual theory isn't an alternative to belief in a Creator and wasn't offered as such. Many more theists accept the theory than there are atheists. These so called mysteries have added detail to the theory, but clearly the basis of the theory did not require them. Mysteries, I might add, that were found using the science that you seem to deny has value.

After 1950 biochemistry has come to understand that living matters is more complex than Darwin could ever have dreamed of.
This may be the only valid statement you made and it is completely irrelevant to the validity of the theory of evolution. Considering what has been learned in the last 150 years, what any scientist of Darwin's time dreamed would pale in comparison to what we have discovered in that intervening time.

So, in view of this, what happened to Darwin allegedly elegant and simple idea ?
It became the basis of modern biology.
Although not a single sector of Darwinic evolution can offer uncontested proof that it is nothing more than a imaginative theory it is acclaimed by mainstream scientists as a science.
It has been pointed out that your statements indicate a lack of understanding of science. Once again, and I feel certain not for the last time, nothing in science is offered as uncontested proof. Even the science that doesn't make you uncomfortable.

Lynn Margulis a distinguished University Professor of Biology puts it this way:
"History will ultimately judge neo-Darwinism as a minor twentieth-century religious sect within the sprawling religious persuasion of Anglo-Saxon biology"
She asks any molecular biologists to name a single, unambiguous example of the formation of a new species by the accumulation of mutations. Her challenge to date is still unmet.
She says " proponents of the standard theory [of evolution] wallow in their zoological, capitalistic, competitive, cost-benefit interpretation of Darwin..."
Enough has been said by others to invalidate the relevance of these quote mines used to further smear someone whom you seem to believe is seen as some sort of messiah. As if smearing him will topple the acceptance of a valid, sound and useful scientific theory.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi,
You should know what I'm talking about,

although I'm just talking in lay-mens term, what I said is correct concerning the 2cd and 3rd law of thermodynamics.

I propose evolutionist should consider other things than just support for their unprovable theory.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same (First Law), the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time.

Jastrow went on to say, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream(God and the Astronomers, p. 116.) It seems the Cosmic Egg that was the birth of our universe logically requires a Cosmic Chicken...
Not correct according to physicists.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hi,
You should know what I'm talking about,

although I'm just talking in lay-mens term, what I said is correct concerning the 2cd and 3rd law of thermodynamics.

I propose evolutionist should consider other things than just support for their unprovable theory.

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same (First Law), the quality of matter/energy deteriorates gradually over time.

Jastrow went on to say, "For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream(God and the Astronomers, p. 116.) It seems the Cosmic Egg that was the birth of our universe logically requires a Cosmic Chicken...
It dies not matter what you are talking about. You are wrong. Creationists misinterpret the laws of entropy. For the second law they take a simplified version that only applies to closed systems and try to apply it to open systems. By their own poor standards life is impossible by their interpretation. If you are alive you have refuted the creationist version of the second law of thermodynamics.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi,
The fact is since the Archaeopteryx fossil is considered controversial it cannot be used as proof for evolution.
The controversy is manufactured and has lead some people to incorrectly cite that manufactured controversy as if it were fact.

Archaeopteryx is evidence of evolution.

See, I just said that I did not think my previous post would be the last time you were informed that nothing in science is offered as uncontested proof. It is a strength of science that helps keep it from becoming mired in dogma and stifled.
 

Neuropteron

Active Member
What's the answer? How do opponents of the modern theory of evolution propose to explain the origin of species?
If you mean that the theory of evolution is, as regard to many of its details, a work in progress, then that's correct ─ just as it's correct about any other scientific theory. But I'm not aware of any successful attack on the basic ideas as such ─ that all life has evolved from a common source.

For instance, 25% of the genes of slime moulds have direct equivalents in humans. How do you explain that? And having explained it, how do you demonstrate to the impartial onlooker that your explanation is correct?
You mean Trump? Putin? Bolsonaro? If so, I hope you're right.

Hi,

Evoutionist are constantly attempting to force other to explain that their theory is false.
That's not the way it works, evolution has to prove their premise, not the other way around. The fact is obvious, they cannot do it.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Hi,

Evoutionist are constantly attempting to force other to explain that their theory is false.
That's not the way it works, evolution has to prove their premise, not the other way around. The fact is obvious, they cannot do it.
Wrong again. Scientists have provided more than enough evidence for evolution. If you ask politely and try to learn people will help you. If you repeat lies and nonsense people will laugh at you.

The fact that evidence has been provided puts the burden of proof on deniers.
 
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