Dawkins’ Belief Scale

[Viker]

But I thought all atheists were communists.

Be silent, comrade Reptilian! Silence is golden, like hammer and sickle.

 

[Road Warrior]

But I thought all atheists were communists.

LOL. Not true, but all communists are atheists.

All Spanish Inquisition torturers were Catholic, but not all Catholics are torturers. Dawkins, who obviously hates Catholics because he's always ripping on them and advising people to ridicule and mock them, compares them to pedophiles. Sure, the Catholic Church needs to answer up for how they handled that problem, but who here seriously thinks all Catholics are pedophiles? Probably the same percentage who believe all atheists are communists.

 

[tumbleweed41]

LOL. Not true, but all communists are atheists.
...

Not so.

Read Sir (Saint) Thomas Moors 'Utopia'. 1516. Or look up the Puritan "Diggers".
Not to mention the many Communists and Socialists of today who are not atheists.

(I am a Socialist Democrat myself.)

 

[Road Warrior]

Not so.

Read Sir (Saint) Thomas Moors 'Utopia'. 1516. Or look up the Puritan "Diggers".
Not to mention the many Communists and Socialists of today who are not atheists.

(I am a Socialist Democrat myself.)

I submit then that you are not a communist.

Certainly not a communist as Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao adhere to being. Do you deny they were atheists?

 

[outhouse]

Do you deny they were atheists?

because their society didnt worship or have a national religion, doesnt mean they didnt have a chosen deity they prayed to at night

 

[Road Warrior]

Someone didn't read the links.

"The Soviet Union was the first state to have as an ideological objective the elimination of religion and its replacement with atheism. The communist regime confiscated religious property, ridiculed religion, harassed believers, and propagated atheism in schools. The confiscation of religious assets was often based on accusations of illegal accumulation of wealth.

State atheism in the Soviet Union was known as gosateizm, and was based on the ideology of Marxism–Leninism.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think we can legitimately say that atheism led to the slaughter of people in the Soviet Union, Mao's China, or elsewhere. Atheism is merely a notion that gods do not exist. It is not a notion that you must slaughter other people.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I submit then that you are not a communist.

Certainly not a communist as Marx, Lenin, Stalin and Mao adhere to being. Do you deny they were atheists?

What if they were? They may be the most popularized Communists, but that still does not indicate all Communists are atheists.

As you indicated in your previous post, gross generalizations do not represent the truth.

 

[4consideration]

I don't think we can legitimately say that atheism led to the slaughter of people in the Soviet Union, Mao's China, or elsewhere. Atheism is merely a notion that gods do not exist. It is not a notion that you must slaughter other people.

Of course, I would agree that atheism as the notion that gods do not exist is not a direct cause of those historical tragedies. But, it certainly was the belief system that was applauded as "progressive" and within which those actions were justified. The idea of a God (or the traditional religion) in those societies was replaced with a notion that placed society/the State in the role of "God."

 

[Road Warrior]

What if they were? They may be the most popularized Communists, but that still does not indicate all Communists are atheists.

Then, according to their own ideology, they aren't communists. Just a modified form such as Tumbleweed mentioned being a Social Democrat. Not all of them are necessarily atheists, but then I'm not very familiar with their ideology. Not all USA Republicans are Baptists even though some in the GOP are trying to make it so.

 

[outhouse]

Someone didn't read the links.

doesnt refute that they may have had personal deities

 

[outhouse]

here lets post this so you dont embarrass yourself further

Measured Against Reality: Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Were Not Atheists

they abolished religion so that they could establish cults of personality, and become gods themselves.


Stalin actually reinstated the church after Hitler invaded,

 

[Sunstone]

Of course, I would agree that atheism as the notion that gods do not exist is not a direct cause of those historical tragedies. But, it certainly was the belief system that was applauded as "progressive" and within which those actions were justified. The idea of a God (or the traditional religion) in those societies was replaced with a notion that placed society/the State in the role of "God."

Of course, there is nothing in the notion that the gods do not exist that logically requires someone to elevate the state to a god. If someone, such as Stalin or Mao, thought they had to elevate the state to a god because they were atheists, they would be thinking irrationally.

 

[fallingblood]

here lets post this so you dont embarrass yourself further

Measured Against Reality: Hitler, Stalin, and Mao Were Not Atheists

they abolished religion so that they could establish cults of personality, and become gods themselves.


Stalin actually reinstated the church after Hitler invaded,

You linked to a personal blog. Not a scholar. Not a historian. Not even a really good writer. You linked to some random blog, which I'm sure was one of the first links you found on Google. Not really a credible source. And hardly one that actually provides any evidence that they were not atheists. One can see how weak the argument is by the conclusion, where the author implies it is possible that they were atheists, but that that wouldn't matter anyway.

Also, starting a cult of personality does not mean that the leader becomes a god. It certainly doesn't imply that the leader thinks that they are a god, or are theists. A cult of personality simply creates a heroic or idealize individual. That individual can be seen as fully human, and in no way divine.

Stalin and Mao were atheists. Hitler is a little more difficult. He was a theist, but it isn't as simple as that.

 

[Katzpur]

I voted "strong theist," but I objected to the "I know" part. Would rather that it read, "I believe."

That's why I voted "De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God." The words "know" and "believe" are really kind of problematic, in my opinion. I feel that "I believe" (or even "I strongly believe...") does not adequately express my feelings, but that "I know" is not accurate because God's existance is not something I can prove -- not even to myself. Personally, I find the phrase, "I am convinced that there is a God," to be the best way of expressing how I feel.

 

[outhouse]

LOL

Also, starting a cult of personality does not mean that the leader becomes a god.

I hope you mix comedy in with your magic, your funny.


he was just as much a god as the abrahamic god. he was just as much a god as jesus, he was just as much a god as Caesar and all the other mortal men ever deified. Gods at this point have never been proven beyond mythology, you have no point.

That individual can be seen as fully human, and in no way divine.

says who??

people have been making mortal men deities for thousands of years.

When jesus healed people, they thought he was divine.

Stalin and Mao were atheists.

how do you know they were not gnostic? or prayed to another god in private?


did oe did not stalin open the church up after hitler, you havent answered that, only empty retorts

 

[Road Warrior]

What if they were? They may be the most popularized Communists, but that still does not indicate all Communists are atheists.

As you indicated in your previous post, gross generalizations do not represent the truth.

Agreed. The point being is that atheists as well as theists who use gross generalizations are equally wrong. As you probably noticed, my initial comment was to this post:

I'm not aware of Dawkins bullying anyone. He is certainly unforgiving and perhaps ungracious in the language he uses, but he doesn't evangelize, nor is he politically active.

And I have never heard him blame the deaths of thousands on witchcraft or homosexual practices or the "wrath of God:.

Your comment was tinged in sarcasm for a reason that you and I know very well. Atheists love to taint all Christians with the atrocities of a few who murdered or otherwise conducted themselves in a very unChristianlike manner. Yes, gross generalizations do not represent the truth.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Your comment was tinged in sarcasm for a reason that you and I know very well. Atheists love to taint all Christians with the atrocities of a few who murdered or otherwise conducted themselves in a very unChristianlike manner. Yes, gross generalizations do not represent the truth.

Actually, I was targeting Pat Robertson and his assertions that the Haitian earthquake, hurricanes and tornadoes were justifiable acts of God as retribution for various sins.
Since the previous post was a comparison of Dawkins and Robertson.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I voted for the "de-facto theist" stance. I had lost all faith in any sort of god or creator, but lately I've been moving away from atheism as I feel that it's not satisfying and too restrictive a stance. I can't claim to know for sure, but I do believe that there's an intelligence behind the existence of the universe and especially behind the existence of life. I don't claim to know what the personality of this creative intelligence is and if it interacts with us in any tangible manner.

I'm actually leaning towards a sort of polytheistic Satanism.

 

[Road Warrior]

Actually, I was targeting Pat Robertson and his assertions that the Haitian earthquake, hurricanes and tornadoes were justifiable acts of God as retribution for various sins.
Since the previous post was a comparison of Dawkins and Robertson.

Pat Robertson needs to be called on his harmful and, IMO, decidedly unChristian, assertions. Of course, Dawkins and anyone else who spreads hateful or bullying advocations needs to called on their words too.