Dawkins’ Belief Scale

[Road Warrior]

I voted for the "de-facto theist" stance. I had lost all faith in any sort of god or creator, but lately I've been moving away from atheism as I feel that it's not satisfying and too restrictive a stance. I can't claim to know for sure, but I do believe that there's an intelligence behind the existence of the universe and especially behind the existence of life. I don't claim to know what the personality of this creative intelligence is and if it interacts with us in any tangible manner.

I'm actually leaning towards a sort of polytheistic Satanism.

I find it odd that one can disbelieve in God, but believe in Satan much less polytheism. Even polytheistic religions such as that of the Greeks and Romans had a supreme leader of the gods, Zeus/Jupiter.

OTOH, I also find it odd that some Christians find it easier to think the Devil is at play in many worldly actions but do not put an equal belief in the good works or power of God in our daily lives. For example, they might see "the Devil" in the events of 9/11 or abortions, but don't seem to share the equal faith that God, who created Lucifer, is truly omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. To me, this shows them to have a fundamental lack of faith in the Almighty.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I find it odd that one can disbelieve in God, but believe in Satan much less polytheism. Even polytheistic religions such as that of the Greeks and Romans had a supreme leader of the gods, Zeus/Jupiter.

I believe in many different Gods and Goddesses, or at least their potential existence. Polytheism is something I've just started to seriously consider. I also think we're all potential Gods or Goddesses. I just don't happen to believe in the Biblical one nor are the Abrahamic religions the framework for my beliefs, although I may make use of some imagery or concepts from them when or if I find them suitable. My perception of Satan/Lucifer (who I perceive as the same force or being, but different aspects thereof) is multifaceted and fluid, and draws upon pre-Christian ideas. If Yahweh does exist, it doesn't really matter to me. He doesn't factor into my belief system, really. I believe Satan has shown up in many different belief systems throughout history, under many different names and forms. I think "Satan" or "Lucifer" is just our present society's way of comprehending this being or force.

I do believe there is a cosmic intelligence behind existence, but it's not the Biblical god. Nor is it necessarily Satan. Nor is it necessarily any god that humans have conceived of. The myths dealing with Satan/Lucifer help me to understand his character and appreciate his qualities, but I may not accept them as being literally true. I use the imagery that resonates the most with me. It is what Satan represents that is the most important thing. The myths just help me to understand that better.

I'm moving away from LaVeyan Satanism because it find it unsatisfying, and am undergoing a period of rethinking my beliefs and study. Who knows how it'll eventually end up. Maybe I will end up being the sort of theistic Satanist who works from a Christian or Gnostic framework and who views Satan as the rebellious Angel. I was a Catholic before, so that certainly wouldn't be too difficult for me to work with. But that's not where I am right now, and maybe my path will never go that way. I go with what feels right to me, what works for me and where my journey leads.

OTOH, I also find it odd that some Christians find it easier to think the Devil is at play in many worldly actions but do not put an equal belief in the good works or power of God in our daily lives. For example, they might see "the Devil" in the events of 9/11 or abortions, but don't seem to share the equal faith that God, who created Lucifer, is truly omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient. To me, this shows them to have a fundamental lack of faith in the Almighty.

Yes, I've definitely noticed that.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

What I find astounding about this poll is the diversity of beliefs of those who are strong theist.

 

[jasonwill2]

For the purposes of this poll, God is defined as any singular deity. For instance, YHWH, Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, "First Cause", etc.


Poll courtesy of Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion.

​

**** **** **** for a singular diety? that totally ***** with my vote. I don't believe in monotheism, I'm a quasi-pantheist with very hard polytheistic elements.

I believe in Satan/Leviathan as the creator(s), but recognize hundreds if not thousands of other gods from various cultures as being real.

how the hell am I supposed to vote then???

 

[Falvlun]

I voted "strong theist," but I objected to the "I know" part. Would rather that it read, "I believe."

I think the scale in the book makes it a little more clear:

1. Strong theist. 100 percent probability of God. In the words of C.G. Jung, ‘I do not believe, I know.’

Is not knowledge/facts defined as something which we are 100% certain to be true?

If you are not 100% certain that god exists, I think that knocks you up a point on the scale. And if you are 100% certain that God exists, then that is equivalent to claiming that you know he does.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

This poll puts me in mind of extremists and moderates. The Strong Theists and Atheists are both extremists and most likely don't have the ability to constructively discuss religion. The Weak Theists and Atheists are moderates and can easily discuss religion without coming to blows. The Pure Agnostic sounds like a Centrist who can't be bothered to choose a side.

One problem I have is with the term Weak as I see those two positions as the preferred positions rather than the extremists positions that the poll labels as strong.

Questions, which of these types of people can you be friends with? Only those within your own group or other groups too? Can you cross the middle ground to be friends with folks so far from your beliefs? What about any of these groups affects your ability to be friends with them?

 

[jasonwill2]

This poll puts me in mind of extremists and moderates. The Strong Theists and Atheists are both extremists and most likely don't have the ability to constructively discuss religion. The Weak Theists and Atheists are moderates and can easily discuss religion without coming to blows. The Pure Agnostic sounds like a Centrist who can't be bothered to choose a side.

One problem I have is with the term Weak as I see those two positions as the preferred positions rather than the extremists positions that the poll labels as strong.

Questions, which of these types of people can you be friends with? Only those within your own group or other groups too? Can you cross the middle ground to be friends with folks so far from your beliefs? What about any of these groups affects your ability to be friends with them?

Infintinum, a strong atheist and a LHP practitioner is someone I am friends with, and I'm a strong theist.

 

[Levite]

It seems to me that this poll, this scale of belief, overlooks the critical fact that for most people, belief is something which with they are continuously in process. What they believe now is seldom what they have always believed, and is not necessarily what they will believe in the future.

Plus, it strikes me that it is both vague as to the nature of the god in which belief is being acknowledged or rejected, and fails to acknowledge that there may be a conscious and self-aware distinction between subjective proof and objective proof. In other words, for example, I am currently a Strong Theist in regard to my own subjective belief in God's existence, but would probably be somewhere close to Pure Agnostic in terms of objective proof of God's existence.

 

[Penumbra]

For the purposes of this poll, God is defined as any singular deity. For instance, YHWH, Jehovah, Allah, Krishna, "First Cause", etc.

Poll courtesy of Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion.

I voted, "Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical."

It was either that one, or the next most atheist one. The issue is that the term god seems vaguely defined here. My level of belief in some personal or literal deity like Apollo or Jesus or Yahweh or Allah or something is nearly strong atheist. But "First Cause"? Not much to believe or disbelieve in there. Some various pantheist or panentheist conceptions, or like the Stoic logos, I'm not inclined to believe they're accurate, but there's not a whole lot that sounds entirely wrong to me, either. The origin of the universe seems pretty crazy and difficult to grasp, but the more anthropomorphized it is, the less likely I am going to believe it.

 

[jasonwill2]

This whole thing is skewed because it only takes into account a monotheistic deity, which is just from a few religions.

I am not a monotheist as it's stupid, if a god exists, and lesser spirits exist, who is to say what a god is other than a label for a powerful spirit?

 

[Infinitum]

Infintinum, a strong atheist and a LHP practitioner is someone I am friends with, and I'm a strong theist.

There's a good reason why I avoid talking religion with you.

Then again I don't really feel the need to walk around arguing with what and how people believe. I've seen all sides of the fence and everyone have their own reasons for having the stance they do. If someone actually wants to discuss just for the joy of discussing, that's an entirely different matter, but even then I'm very keen on respecting what the other beliefs without constantly trying to change it.

 

[Falvlun]

I actually don't understand why this poll was limited to a monotheistic conception of God.

 

[jasonwill2]

There's a good reason why I avoid talking religion with you.

Then again I don't really feel the need to walk around arguing with what and how people believe. I've seen all sides of the fence and everyone have their own reasons for having the stance they do. If someone actually wants to discuss just for the joy of discussing, that's an entirely different matter, but even then I'm very keen on respecting what the other beliefs without constantly trying to change it.

That is why I like you :yes:

I actually don't understand why this poll was limited to a monotheistic conception of God.

Because Dawkins is a close-minded person who repeatably shows he doesn't get religion in general, despite some of his well-founded criticism of it/and or Christianity.

He probably doesn't know much about religion outside of monotheism if I had to guess... he's also very abrasive and argumentative. I recall reading letters sent in to Discover magazine after an article interviewing him... many atheists and theists said he was so dogmatic it was like he made his own religion.

edit: though I read that about 5-6 years ago, I recall very vividly someone referring to his dogma as "amusing" how he "created" his own "religion".

 

[PolyHedral]

I actually don't understand why this poll was limited to a monotheistic conception of God.

Because 1) monotheism is the most common conception of God, hence the poll was written as a response to that, and 2) you can't have a multidimensional value on just one poll.

 

[jasonwill2]

Because 1) monotheism is the most common conception of God, hence the poll was written as a response to that, and 2) you can't have a multidimensional value on just one poll.

1) no its not.

2) yes you can.

 

[tumbleweed41]

I actually don't understand why this poll was limited to a monotheistic conception of God.

More than likely because that it what Dawkins is exposed to in Europe, and it is the dominant theology in the West.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Its easily extended just by simply saying I am a 5 on the scale towards one particular god concept, 3 towards that other one and so forth.

 

[PolyHedral]

1) no its not.

2) yes you can.

Christianity and Islam combined cover, at minimum, 3.3 out of 7 billion people on the planet. Hence, monotheism is the most common conception of God. In fact, if you discount the 1.1bn irreligious, monotheists form a clear majority of all believers.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Because 1) monotheism is the most common conception of God, hence the poll was written as a response to that, and 2) you can't have a multidimensional value on just one poll.

I thought it was because Dawkins was afraid of the Abrahamic Religions but doesn't really feel threatened by the others.

 

[Falvlun]

Because 1) monotheism is the most common conception of God, hence the poll was written as a response to that, and 2) you can't have a multidimensional value on just one poll.

Hm. I tend to think of a concept of god to be pretty broad. If you have a monotheist concept of God, you believe God exists. If you have a deist concept of God, you believe God exists. If you believe that a pantheon of gods exist, then you believe that God(s) exist. If you believe that the universe is God (panentheism, not necessary pantheism), then you believe that God exists. Just like the generic term "theist" refers to anyone who believes that some form of God exists, I don't see why this poll also couldn't include all forms of god concepts.