Death for Apostacy in Islam discussion

[Span2]

So from reading Hadiths from Sunnah.com.. Well 6 strong ones
And i am somewhat 20 Chapters of Quran in by reading commentator Ibn Kathir Tafsir

I can assume apostacy is comparable to treason? Like trying to be against muslim community. But that if you dont outwardly speak out then you may repent if you find out its the right religion.

Or am i wrong with the context here?

 

[Birdnest]

You can always repent and regarding apostasy you won't be executed if you return to the religion.

 

[Span2]

You can always repent and regarding apostasy you won't be executed if you return to the religion.

So basically, lets say someone is an outspoken Atheist, will that be sorta like a death sentence? If one does it in public?

edit: Or i guess its more. One sorta can be an atheist if one keeps it in the closet. But if one uses it for public exposure then thats seen as an injustice towards the system. Just curious if lets say someone where to be public about it. Whats the usual procedure?

 

[Altfish]

You can always repent and regarding apostasy you won't be executed if you return to the religion.

Why do you need to repent? You've done nothing wrong.

 

[MyM]

So from reading Hadiths from Sunnah.com.. Well 6 strong ones
And i am somewhat 20 Chapters of Quran in by reading commentator Ibn Kathir Tafsir

I can assume apostacy is comparable to treason? Like trying to be against muslim community. But that if you dont outwardly speak out then you may repent if you find out its the right religion.

Or am i wrong with the context here?

The Prophet pbuh said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)

If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – example, he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.


Your answer is that Allah swt is the One Who revealed this religion and enjoined it. He is the One Who ruled that the one who enters it and then leaves it is to be executed. This ruling does not come from the Muslims’ ideas or suggestions. As this is the case, then we must follow the ruling of Allah so long as we are content to accept Him as our Lord and God.

 

[MyM]

Why do you need to repent? You've done nothing wrong.

In an ordinary laymen's eyes, you can see it that way. But this is from Allah and we don't question Allah when he has ordained something in Islam.

 

[MyM]

So from reading Hadiths from Sunnah.com.. Well 6 strong ones
And i am somewhat 20 Chapters of Quran in by reading commentator Ibn Kathir Tafsir

I can assume apostacy is comparable to treason? Like trying to be against muslim community. But that if you dont outwardly speak out then you may repent if you find out its the right religion.

Or am i wrong with the context here?

If a person leaves Islam then decides to come back to it, what he has to do is to bear witness that there is no god except Allah and that Muhammad is His slave and Messenger. If his apostasy was because he denied one of the basic principles of the religion, then his return to Islam cannot be complete until he affirms the principle that he had denied. There is no particular time period within which he can return to Islam; his repentance will be accepted until the point when the death-rattle sounds in his throat and his soul departs. If he is guided back to Islam within the time when it is possible (i.e., before death) and he performs as many of the Islamic duties as he can, then he is a Muslim.

 

[Audie]

You can always repent and regarding apostasy you won't be executed if you return to the religion.

Terrif

 

[Revoltingest]

Terrif

If one returns in time, ie, before the executioner's blade
falls on one's neck. Let's avoid Islamic theocracies.

 

[Altfish]

In an ordinary laymen's eyes, you can see it that way. But this is from Allah and we don't question Allah when he has ordained something in Islam.

So Allah is a tyrant?
He sounds horrible that he has to rule by fear.

 

[MyM]

So Allah is a tyrant?
He sounds horrible that he has to rule by fear.

Anyone can make Allah out as anything they want, doesn't mean they are knowing the truth.

Allah says that his mercy supersedes his wrath.

So, you can believe how you wish Muslims understand

 

[England my lionheart]

You can always repent and regarding apostasy you won't be executed if you return to the religion.

No compulsion there then.

 

[sayak83]

The Prophet pbuh said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)

If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – example, he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.


Your answer is that Allah swt is the One Who revealed this religion and enjoined it. He is the One Who ruled that the one who enters it and then leaves it is to be executed. This ruling does not come from the Muslims’ ideas or suggestions. As this is the case, then we must follow the ruling of Allah so long as we are content to accept Him as our Lord and God.

So if one leaves the faith publicly he or she should be executed according to Islam. Correct?
Thus Islam is against freedom of religion and freedom of beliefs. Correct?

 

[Birdnest]

So basically, lets say someone is an outspoken Atheist, will that be sorta like a death sentence? If one does it in public?

edit: Or i guess its more. One sorta can be an atheist if one keeps it in the closet. But if one uses it for public exposure then thats seen as an injustice towards the system. Just curious if lets say someone where to be public about it. Whats the usual procedure?

If one has been a Muslim and publicly preaches atheism in an islamic country, he's clearly an idiot. He could be executed, but that obviously doesn't usually happen. As much as atheists like to think of themselves as original thinkers, most people just don't care what they have to say, which isn't much to begin with

 

[Span2]

If one has been a Muslim and publicly preaches atheism in an islamic country, he's clearly an idiot. He could be executed, but that obviously doesn't usually happen. As much as atheists like to think of themselves as original thinkers, most people just don't care what they have to say, which isn't much to begin with

Its not so much about belief or non belief. Its about what culture society runs on. Historically and present time, its shown devotion culture in government stagnates development. Such as Catholicism and Sunni Islam. Or thats the classical examples. As compared to Protestantism and Secularism in government which actually has a work culture.

So thats the issue, if one drives on work culture then society develops. Its more or less a cultural issue and not so much belief issue. But if devotion aspect becomes main frame of a government and society, then it goes down the hill more or less

 

[Altfish]

Anyone can make Allah out as anything they want, doesn't mean they are knowing the truth.

Allah says that his mercy supersedes his wrath.

So, you can believe how you wish Muslims understand

Isn't it strange that non-Muslims don't agree that you know the truth.

 

[Debater Slayer]

The Prophet pbuh said: “It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa’ah (main group of Muslims).” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)

If a Muslim apostatizes and meets the conditions of apostasy – example, he is of sound mind, an adult and does that of his own free will – then his blood may be shed with impunity. He is to be executed by the Muslim ruler or by his deputy – such as the qaadi or judge, and he is not to not be washed (after death, in preparation for burial), the funeral prayer is not to be offered for him and he is not to be buried with the Muslims.


Your answer is that Allah swt is the One Who revealed this religion and enjoined it. He is the One Who ruled that the one who enters it and then leaves it is to be executed. This ruling does not come from the Muslims’ ideas or suggestions. As this is the case, then we must follow the ruling of Allah so long as we are content to accept Him as our Lord and God.

I'm an ex-Muslim. According to the above post, it would be acceptable for my blood to be "shed with impunity."

Thankfully, my Muslim friends would strongly disagree, and I know enough not to generalize and assume all Muslims have similar beliefs to what you detailed above. But whenever you talk about atheism, atheists, or "anti-Islam bashing," try to ask yourself whether your belief that some of us deserve to be killed merely because we no longer found a specific religion convincing is morally defensible and why any ex-Muslim shouldn't oppose Islamic law if it endorsed that.

Personally, I generally don't believe in the death penalty, and unlike your worldview, mine has no room for supporting the killing of people just for opposing my beliefs. So I hope you can see at some point that you're talking about a diverse group of people (i.e., ex-Muslims) whose lives aren't any less valuable than anyone else just because they left your religion. As things stand, I see no moral difference between the belief you expressed above and support for killing those who, say, don't support a specific ideology or political party.

 

[Debater Slayer]

If one has been a Muslim and publicly preaches atheism in an islamic country, he's clearly an idiot. He could be executed, but that obviously doesn't usually happen. As much as atheists like to think of themselves as original thinkers, most people just don't care what they have to say, which isn't much to begin with

Clearly, enough people care about what atheists have to say considering that many people care enough to demand punishment for publicly vocal atheists, up to and including death.

Regardless, I think it's deeply inhumane and unreasonable to execute or otherwise severely punish someone merely for expressing their beliefs without harming anyone. That applies to atheists, Muslims, and all other religious/irreligious groups.

 

[MyM]

So if one leaves the faith publicly he or she should be executed according to Islam. Correct?
Thus Islam is against freedom of religion and freedom of beliefs. Correct?

In Islam, you were put on this earth to worship the only one worthy of worship and that is Allah, the Creator of you and me. How you deal with your own choices is up to you. You have your own free will to do as you wish. Islam is a guidance, a complete guidance. But the choice is yours to "have your freedom of religion or beliefs". Just don't try and blame Allah on the day of judgement.

 

[Link]

A lot of me I feel closer to western non-Muslims then Muslims, because Muslims, over all, due to killing and abandoning Ahlulbayt (a) and worshiping idols among humans, have lost their sense of justice and human nature.

The one who advocates killing apostates whether Shia or Sunni, will be in hell, unless it was out of Taqiya.