Death Penalty and Allah's Mercy

[Madhuri]

Hi guys and gals,

it's been a while since I've come here to ask questions. I am hoping to gain some understanding about one thing today.

I have read from a number of you that Allah is so merciful that even if someone were to convert to Islam on the last day of their life all of their past sins will be forgiven and they can enter paradise.

I am wondering, since you believe that we only have one life on this planet, only this one chance to get everything right by submitting to Allah, why does Islam ever prescribe death as a punishment?

If someone does something that is very sinful and he or she is killed, you are taking away any chance that one day they might repent and submit to Allah. By killing them, you make it their fate to burn in hell for eternity.

Why does Allah tell you that this is ok? Why are people not allowed a full life and every chance to see the right path?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Rational_Mind]

[69:26] But as for him who is given his record in his left hand, he will say, ‘O would that I had not been given my record!

[69:27] ‘Nor known what my reckoning was!

[69:28] ‘O would that death had made an end of me!

Those who sinned would wish earlier death upon themselves. Allah (swt) said that those who sin are granted a longer life so that they have a chance of repent but if they continue in arrogance it is worse for them.

[35:38] And they will cry for help therein, ‘O our Lord, take us out, we will do righteous works other than those we used to do.’ ‘Did We not give you a life long enough so that he who would reflect could reflect therein? And there came unto you a Warner too. So taste ye the punishment; for wrongdoers have no helper.’

[19:76] Say, ‘The Gracious God does give those who are in error long respite until, when they will see that with which they are threatened — whether it be punishment or the Hour — they will realize who is worse in respect of position and who is weaker in forces.

[2:16] Allah will punish their mockery and will let them continue in their transgression, wandering blindly.

So for one way of answering your question is that a Death Punishment would in many cases be better for the arrogant who continue to act unjustly despite being warned. I will also try to highlight the philosophy of punishment when I find more time. I have left many questions unanswered due to shortage of time, I will try my best to get back to it asap.

 

[Gharib]

What Rational Mind has said is pretty much similar to what I would have said in a way.

The death penalty is only prescribed for major sins/crimes which border disbelief and if left unpunished in this life Allah may choose to not forgive them for it and have them be in hell forever.

Personally, I see any punishment for a sin/crime as a mercy from Allah. The way it works is that one gets punished only once for the sin that they commit in this life. So if you face the prescribed punishment in this world, you are exempt from punishment in the hereafter and that sin in nullified. But if you do not get punished in this life you will have to face the punishment of hell fire which is much worse and longer lasting.

Someone who commits such major sins, as Rational Mind has put it, will continue to dwell in sin afterwards also so rather than have a good person come to that stage of nearing disbelief and loosing all his good deeds, they are to be punished for the one major sin which they have committed and they are prevented from indulging in further sin and instead have their good deeds of the past with them to present on the Day of Judgement.

Someone who faces the death penalty for a major sin doesn't necessarily become a non-believer and have all his good deeds nullified, they simply get punished for the sin which they have committed while their good past remains unless they commit disbelief.

 

[Madhuri]

Oh ok, so Islam says nothing about killing non-believers?

 

[Gharib]

Oh ok, so Islam says nothing about killing non-believers?

The only time a non-Muslim may be killed is if they commit a crime which requires the death penalty while under Islamic rule.

Another time is when there is war between the Islamic state and another country. If we are victorious then the enemy is given three options:

1. To accept Islam.

If they refuse then we offer them:

2. To accept Islamic rule over them and pay the annual tax known as Jizya for which in return they are to receive protection and help

If they refuse this also then

3. The men who are capable of fighting (too part in the battle) are to be killed for their killing of our people.

 

[Madhuri]

The only time a non-Muslim may be killed is if they commit a crime which requires the death penalty while under Islamic rule.

Can you give me an example of some of the crimes that would see them killed? And would a Muslim also be killed for those crimes?

Another time is when there is war between the Islamic state and another country. If we are victorious then the enemy is given three options:

Why does a subdued enemy have to accept Islam as their religion?

 

[Assad91]

Why does a subdued enemy have to accept Islam as their religion?

They dont. They can pay jizya

 

[islam abduallah]

Oh ok, so Islam says nothing about killing non-believers?

No believers should not be killed except if they attacking our homes and also Muslims as well should be killed if they attacked other Muslims

Allah said "Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly" 60:8

And if two factions among the believers should fight, then make settlement between the two. But if one of them oppresses the other, then fight against the one that oppresses until it returns to the ordinance of Allah . And if it returns, then make settlement between them in justice and act justly. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly. 49:9

 

[Madhuri]

They dont. They can pay jizya

Thanks, I misread the initial response.

 

[islam abduallah]

Can you give me an example of some of the crimes that would see them killed? And would a Muslim also be killed for those crimes?

the same crimes where a Muslim should be killed under the law, killing a human, or doing adultery "if he/she was married"

Why does a subdued enemy have to accept Islam as their religion?

they don't have to do, they have other option to pay jizyya which is about 3 dollars per year and then it's obligation on Muslims to defend against any enemy even if that will cost Muslim's lives

 

[Madhuri]

Thank you for the answers so far but I think my original question remains unanswered. At least concerning non-Muslims, why are there laws saying they must be put to death if death means taking away all chance that this non-believer will ever have to convert to Islam? Because this belief in Allah seems to be the utmost important thing that one must possess in life, wouldn't killing someone be the most sinful thing to do? By killing a non-believer, you are basically damning them to eternal suffering in hell. By killing them, they will never have the chance to repent. Clearly a lot of people do bad things and later in their life change their ideas, beliefs and behaviour.

So why is killing allowed?

 

[Peace]

Thank you for the answers so far but I think my original question remains unanswered. At least concerning non-Muslims, why are there laws saying they must be put to death

From where did you come up with this conclusion. Where did you read that non-Muslims must be put to death?!
It's forbidden in Islam to kill a soul, any soul, that of a believer or a non believer.
If there is war, that's something else. We fight those who fight us.

 

[Madhuri]

From where did you come up with this conclusion. Where did you read that non-Muslims must be put to death?!
It's forbidden in Islam to kill a soul, any soul, that of a believer or a non believer.
If there is war, that's something else. We fight those who fight us.

I was just told on the previous page that both believers and non-believers should be put to death for committing major crimes 'like adultery'.

 

[Gharib]

The notion of there should be no death because non-Muslims may become Muslims one day is incorrect and would do injustice to both Muslims and the victims of such people who commit a crime worthy of death.

As humans we are to judge one another by what is apparent to us. We judge one another based on our actions. There may be someone who believes in something yet he does and says contrary to that and being humans that we are and being unable to see into peoples hearts and minds we take them to be as they present themselves.

If there is an Islamic state and in it live non-Muslims then they too are to face the same punishment for the sins which we hold punishable. In terms of the major sins, they are exempt from the punishment of apostasy regardless if they change from one faith to another which is other than Islam. Islam has no punishment for people believing in other things/faiths.

As for how a lack of death penalty would be injustice, Islam doesn't judge people based on social ranking, religious beliefs/ranking or any other kind of ranking. The law is the same for everyone who lives under Islamic rule, you could be the leader of the Muslims and still face the same punishment for the same crime as a poor man.

Just because people live to old age doesn't necessarily mean that they may become Muslims. Everyone cannot be a Muslim, the past testifies to this. It is something that people have in their own hands to change. I can commit many crimes if I choose to, but I don't. And the government doesn't owe me anything to let me go free because one day I may become a law abiding citizen or it will hurt my future reputation when I may decide to run for Prime Minister.

 

[Gharib]

From where did you come up with this conclusion. Where did you read that non-Muslims must be put to death?!
It's forbidden in Islam to kill a soul, any soul, that of a believer or a non believer.
If there is war, that's something else. We fight those who fight us.

Sister I think there is some confusion. She is asking why is it that if people get only one shot at obedience, shouldn't Allah not have non-Muslims punished by death if one day they may become Muslims.

She is not implying that Islam calls for the death of innocent people of other faiths.

 

[Pastek]

If someone does something that is very sinful and he or she is killed, you are taking away any chance that one day they might repent and submit to Allah. By killing them, you make it their fate to burn in hell for eternity.

Why does Allah tell you that this is ok? Why are people not allowed a full life and every chance to see the right path?

Thank you in advance.

2.178 O you who have believed, prescribed for you is legal retribution for those murdered - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. But whoever overlooks from his brother anything, then there should be a suitable follow-up and payment to him with good conduct. This is an alleviation from your Lord and a mercy. But whoever transgresses after that will have a painful punishment.

5.45 And We ordained for them therein a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose, an ear for an ear, a tooth for a tooth, and for wounds is legal retribution. But whoever gives [up his right as] charity, it is an expiation for him. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the wrongdoers.

So, we can also forgive.But honnestly, if someone kill intentionally one of your family could you forgive this person?When you see each time on tv someone killing women making a jogging or raping and killing children, or even doing things very barbaric like the canadian who killed that chinese student recently, you really feel sympathy for this person and think about if he will go to heaven or hell ?When i see this kind of things on tv or news paper i feel sad for the victims.

You think about the probabily that a killer could have had time to believe in God or ask for forgiveness. Ok, that's true.
But do you think of the victim who was maybe a person who didn't believed in God or was searching God, and could have believe in Him too ?
Anyway, someone who regrets his act, can still ask God for forgiveness before his punishement. While for the victim it's too late.

 

[Peace]

I was just told on the previous page that both believers and non-believers should be put to death for committing major crimes 'like adultery'.

God put strict rules concerning punishment for adultery which makes it almost very difficult to apply that punishment. Those who commit adultery can't be punished until there are four eye witnesses; that is to say, there must be 4 people who witness the act of adultery so as to apply the punishment. If someone accused someone else with adultery and didn't bring 4 eye witnesses, he will be lashed. Do you see how difficult to apply the punishment of adultery.

 

[Madhuri]

God put strict rules concerning punishment for adultery which makes it almost very difficult to apply that punishment. Those who commit adultery can't be punished until there are four eye witnesses; that is to say, there must be 4 people who witness the act of adultery so as to apply the punishment. If someone accused someone else with adultery and didn't bring 4 eye witnesses, he will be lashed. Do you see how difficult to apply the punishment of adultery.

I have heard of this rule but it isn't the point. This rule is to help ensure that the accused is not wrongfully accused (although if a group of people wanted to hurt somebody, they could easily lie).

The point is that according to your beliefs, a person does deserve death if they commit adultery. And my question is inspired from knowing examples of people who commit these sort of sins when they are young but have experiences which show them this is bad and change their behaviour. I just wonder, if they were in an Islamic society, they would have possibly been killed and never had a chance to change their ways. It surprises me that in Islam it is not recommended to imprison these people instead and educate them in the hope that they change. Instead they lose any chance to have a life changing experience and are condemned to eternal suffering.

 

[Madhuri]

Just because people live to old age doesn't necessarily mean that they may become Muslims. Everyone cannot be a Muslim, the past testifies to this. It is something that people have in their own hands to change. I can commit many crimes if I choose to, but I don't. And the government doesn't owe me anything to let me go free because one day I may become a law abiding citizen or it will hurt my future reputation when I may decide to run for Prime Minister.

What about when a Muslim converts to another religion?
It is highly common for people who convert out of a religion to one day come back to it. Young people are easily influenced but older people often return to their old habits.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Islam say a person should be killed if they covert out of Islam? What is the reason for this? Why are they not given a chance to have their life experiences which may or may not lead them back to Islam?

Also, why is it not possible for everyone to become a Muslim? I mean hypothetically.

 

[F0uad]

What about when a Muslim converts to another religion?
It is highly common for people who convert out of a religion to one day come back to it. Young people are easily influenced but older people often return to their old habits.
Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Islam say a person should be killed if they covert out of Islam? What is the reason for this? Why are they not given a chance to have their life experiences which may or may not lead them back to Islam?

Also, why is it not possible for everyone to become a Muslim? I mean hypothetically.

I just want to add there are different interpretations on this. Some say that a Ex-Muslim only deserves the death-penalty when he makes hes conversion "leave of Islam" publicly. Other say if its in a time of war and you have people who belief whenever the person changes hes Islamic religion.

There are scholars who have disagreements with the penalty such as Abu Hanifa and hes followers also the Hanafi scholars didn't allow female apostate to be killed and the reason they give is: Because it was forbidden to kill women by the Islamic prophet Muhammad, and are unlikely to take up arms and endanger the community.
There are also is The hanafi jurist Sarakhsi who also called for different punishments between the non-seditious religious apostasy and that of seditious and political nature, or high treason.

Several modern scholars oppose any penalty for apostasy, including Gamal Al-Banna, Taha Jabir Alalwani, Ahmad Kutty of the Islamic Institute of Toronto and Shabir Ally. Quran Alone Muslims do not support the apostasy penalty, citing verses from Qur'an which advocate free will.
Others believe that the death penalty can only be applied when apostasy is coupled with attempts to "harm" the Muslim community, rejecting the death penalty in other cases. These include, Ahmad Shafaat, Jamal Badawi, Yusuf Estes, Javed Ahmad Ghamidi and Maliki jurist Abu al-Walid al-Baji.

However i have to admit there are many who agree that the penalty should be death and there are many hadiths supporting this but there are also Hadiths were apostates were let free.