Debate: If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

[Flat Earth Kyle]

My will is exactly as God intended it to be. he created me with all my perks and new before hand exaclty what he was doing.

For starters, to say that God has a plan goes completely in oposition to saying he is omnipotent

And you still have your agency that will allow you to be just like Satan, or be Just like God.

Quite often people ask the question, "If God already knows where I am going after I die, what is the point of being tested on earth."
An answer to that is that God judges you after you commit the crime, not before. Otherwise it would be unjust. We are here to learn for our selves/ test ourselves, better learn who we are and how we will react in certain situations. In Judgement day comes and God says you will be going here, we will have no objections, and know that is where we will be the most happy.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

So I see you believe in all of them and none?
What does that mean?
Are you an atheist?
From reading all of your doubts/ questions, I speculate that you believe either God doesn't exist or that he is imperfect and not all knowing and all powerful.

 

[Me Myself]

So I see you believe in all of them and none?
What does that mean?
Are you an atheist?
From reading all of your doubts/ questions, I speculate that you believe either God doesn't exist or that he is imperfect and not all knowing and all powerful.

Well, I am a panantheist.

You didn´t answer the question edit: about if you beleived in ethernal damnation

Suffering does indeed always have been a big theological dillema for me though.

edit: satan god agencies? don´t get it

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Well, I am a panantheist.

You didn´t answer the question edit: about if you beleived in ethernal damnation

Suffering does indeed always have been a big theological dillema for me though.

edit: satan god agencies? don´t get it

well I don't know what ethernal damnation is, but if you are referring to eternal damnation. I believe eternal damnation is a halt on eternal progression. You can progress to a certain point, but then can progress no farther. That is my view of eternal damnation. It is the exact opposite of eternal progression.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

well, as we looked around Waitasec's beliefs, we found out that he believed that a person's painful experiences can be learning experiences. Maybe if we look around at your beliefs we might find the same thing.

 

[Me Myself]

well I don't know what ethernal damnation is, but if you are referring to eternal damnation. I believe eternal damnation is a halt on eternal progression. You can progress to a certain point, but then can progress no farther. That is my view of eternal damnation. It is the exact opposite of eternal progression.

Yes I did mean "eternal"xD but not sure if I got your point o.o.

So you beleive a soul could suffer eternaly?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

humm... for most no, there will be an end to their suffering. For Satan and his followers yes, there will be no end to their suffering. It won't be a painful tortured suffering though, more so an everlasting guilt that torments the heart. A forever darkness. The only way to join Satan and his followers would be by denying the Holy Ghost. If you were to walk with God and see him face to face, such as a prophet or apostle,and then go tell your friends that God does not exist would be a good example of what I mean.
Most people don't have the experience of walking and talking with God and seeing Him face to face, and for them there will be an end to their suffering.

 

[Blackdog22]

Yes God intended for them to sin. It is a part of my belief. He didn't command them to sin, but he intended them to sin. I don't see how that is a problem.

So God is responsible for sin. He set them up for something that he apparently despises and can't even look at. He set them up for something that isn't even in his character. How would he know to set them up for sin if God himself can't experience sin? How would he know the outcome? Can God think about sin? Is lust a possibility for God? If he can't think about sin then how did he think up the scenario upon which to set adam and eve up to sin? How did he male a tree with the knowledge of evil if his mind isn't capable of evil? Surely there must be some evil in God.

So many questions that point to this being a fantasy.

 

[waitasec]

Just clarifying that you believe there is some purpose to suffering.
You understand that if there is a God that He lets us suffer for a reason.

no, there is no purpose for suffering. it is what it is.

Understanding that you can see your children again someday really does bring comfort. It isn't running away from the fact of death. It is accepting it as a natural event.

i don't see it that way at all. understanding the limited time we have enables me to appreciate what i have in the here and now.

 

[waitasec]

When you were bringing up all that stuff earlier about if God really does exist and is an omnibenevolent God,why does he allow us to suffer? And arguing with me when I said that suffering is a learning experience,

because you stated that suffering was intended to be a learning experience.
we are talking about intent or indifference...
see what i mean.

yes there is suffering
we went through the list of reasons why...
some people inflict it on them selves or others and that would be plain to see suffering was intended. my argument is of the diseases, natural disasters that are completely out of our hands and accidents and such... from what i gather you say that these things happen because of original sin. ultimately it is our fault we live in an imperfect world because of original sin thereby switching the blame for the bad onto us and the good stuff onto god...
a double standard.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

So God is responsible for sin. He set them up for something that he apparently despises and can't even look at. He set them up for something that isn't even in his character. How would he know to set them up for sin if God himself can't experience sin? How would he know the outcome? Can God think about sin? Is lust a possibility for God? If he can't think about sin then how did he think up the scenario upon which to set adam and eve up to sin? How did he male a tree with the knowledge of evil if his mind isn't capable of evil? Surely there must be some evil in God.

So many questions that point to this being a fantasy.

Didn't we go through this already, as Man is God once was and as God is man may become. At one time not on this earth God did experience sin, he then repented and in time became the all powerful and perfect being we know of today.

 

[wayward_teen]

Didn't we go through this already, as Man is God once was and as God is man may become. At one time not on this earth God did experience sin, he then repented and in time became the all powerful and perfect being we know of today.

All the more reason that if God is all-knowing, all-good, and all-powerful, he wouldn't have shoved us in the same situation he had to claw himself out of.

If God is all-knowing, we don't need suffering to be "tested" either--he would know what choices we would make.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

He would know, but would we know?
If we want to be like God, doesn't it make sense to go through some of the experiences that He went through. God knows a perfect system that works. That is all there is to it. How can you perfect perfection?

 

[waitasec]

why would you be concerned if an ant colony is in harms way?

 

[idav]

why would you be concerned if an ant colony is in harms way?

Butterfly effect.

IOW

If M is the state space for the map f^t, then f^t displays sensitive dependence to initial conditions if for any x in M and any &#948;>0, there are y in M, with 0 < d(x,y) < &#948; such that
d(f^&#964;(x),f^&#964;(y)) > exp(a&#964d(x,y).

Butterfly effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[waitasec]

Butterfly effect.

IOW

If M is the state space for the map f^t, then f^t displays sensitive dependence to initial conditions if for any x in M and any &#948;>0, there are y in M, with 0 < d(x,y) < &#948; such that
d(f^&#964;(x),f^&#964;(y)) > exp(a&#964d(x,y).

Butterfly effect - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

do you mean karma?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

why would you be concerned if an ant colony is in harms way?

How does that relate to anything I just said?
We are God's children, not just some creation or pet.
A colony of ants to us is way different than what we are to God.

 

[idav]

do you mean karma?

It means any slight change, however seemingly insignificant, can have huge impacts in ways that we likely cannot foresee.

 

[waitasec]

How does that relate to anything I just said?
We are God's children, not just some creation or pet.
A colony of ants to us is way different than what we are to God.

explain to me the difference...
ants are a part of gods creation too...

"god" has left us up to our own ability to understand the world around us...
that is why belief in god is based on faith, right? if god had been proven empirically then belief in god wouldn't require faith...right?

so explain the difference...

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

ants are a part of God's creations too and he dose care about them. You are right, but ants are not his children, just as much as my dog is not my child and has no potential to become like me.

How does your statement on faith relate to ants?