Debate: If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

[Koldo]

The reason there is so much suffering is because we need it to progress. What doesn't kill you (spiritually or physically) will make you stronger. If there was no suffering or struggling, we wouldn't mature, physically, mentally, or spiritually. Instead of complaining about our problems, we can consider it a blessing in disguise, and overcome them, becoming a better person in the process.

I don't know if that solves any questions, but yeah. This life isn't the only thing we will experience, and I personally believe that God wants us to become the best we can be in the space of our lives.

Do you believe God needed to go through suffering and struggling to mature?
If not, then why do we have to?

 

[nekoboy]

Do you believe God needed to go through suffering and struggling to mature?
If not, then why do we have to?

If we have to, then God certainly had to Himself.

 

[Koldo]

If we have to, then God certainly had to Himself.

Was he omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent since the beginning?

 

[nekoboy]

Was he omnipotent, omniscient and omnibenevolent since the beginning?

We don't have all the answers, but I have faith that we will in the course of time.

 

[Kroft]

He allows suffering so all people can come to know him. He could have destroyed all humans in eden, but the myriads of angels could have perhaps believed Satans challenge to His sovereignty. After all, satan was useful in the first couples choice of ruler when they chose to disobey. Only 5-6000 years have passed, hardly any time to one who is eternal. He has allowed satan to prove he is a better ruler, which we see he isn't. God can surely help all people choose His government, by a ressurection. Afterall, Jesus did say my KINGDOM was no part of this world. Indicating the government will be in heaven, 1 government, 1 people not like we have today with 280 countries all unhappy.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

He allows suffering so all people can come to know him.

It's better just to call.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Look gang, face it: you're making sad excuses, for a torturer. We're not fooled.

 

[Nakosis]

If you want to go along that line, then:
If God exists, why does God allow so much unwanted pain to exist?

Because you want to live. Because you'd rather experience the pain then not.

I wonder why you are making mention to a contingent matter.

Because it is contingent on your choices.

It just happens to be the case it is necessary in our current world.

Physical form is temporary. It's not permanent. I suppose God could create a static reality but I don't know why. However that would mean you couldn't exist.

It is not strictly a matter of will, but also a matter of capacity.
God could restrict the abilities of various entities and elements to don't influence our lives. Yet he does not.

Every entity is equally independent as far as I know. Why should God play favorites? You are free to make whatever choices you want. So is every other being. We all have to deal with autonomy.

Taking over my will is unnecessary.
He could change the universe to exclude us from suffering by changing multiple other things.

So can you. Why would you want everything handed to you? You want God to stop the independence of part of the universe cause you can't handle it? I suspect you will be able to give up at some point. However right know you still choose to cling to life.

This is not what you said before. Did you change your mind?

I was focused more on God as a transcendent being. However you seem to want to deal with God's immanence.

But there were already other "people" to share existence with. And they weren't divided between groups, nor there were any instincts of procreation playing any role.

This is want the universe has chosen. In some cases a choice of mechanics, in others one of intelligence. This was done independent of God as a transcendent being.

Think of the whole of the universe as immanent God. Of which you are a part of. Your independent choices affect the rest of the universe to a greater or lessor degree. The whole of the universe acting independently makes the actuality of the universe. Parts of it suffer because of the actions of other parts of it.

However part of you remains transcendent. You can transcend suffering, you can transcend the universe. The universe holds power over you because you allow it. You allow the universe to cause you to suffer because you want to be here, you want to exist as an independent entity.

You can transcend, give up that independence. However your desire to continue to exist as an independent being keeps you here. Your desire gives the universe power over you and causes you to suffer. Enslaves you to sin, as the Christians say. You have to learn to have control over your desires. To not be controlled by them. Then you can start to gain control over the universe. You can be more at cause and less the effect. Then you can still decide to check out/transcend or remain and affect the universe at a greater capacity. You can cause or alleviate the suffering of those who remain enslaved. It's up to you as long as remain immanent.

 

[nekoboy]

Look gang, face it: you're making sad excuses, for a torturer. We're not fooled.

The problem with you is that you believe God is limited to your understanding. Try to understand. I don't understand everything myself, but I have faith that I will eventually.

 

[garrydons]

Yes God really exist. But why He allowed suffering? So that man will know the consequence of disobeying His commands. Simply put, the Bible pronounce blessing to those who obey while curse to those who disobey.

 

[nekoboy]

Yes God really exist. But why He allowed suffering? So that man will know the consequence of disobeying His commands. Simply put, the Bible pronounce blessing to those who obey while curse to those who disobey.

Don't forget about Job. The righteous suffer too, and many wicked people turned out to be karma Houdinis in this life. Even the righteous go through trials, but everyone will receive their reward in the afterlife, either for good or for evil.

 

[PolyHedral]

Yes God really exist. But why He allowed suffering? So that man will know the consequence of disobeying His commands. Simply put, the Bible pronounce blessing to those who obey while curse to those who disobey.

The Bible is wrong here. We happen to have tested this, and reality doesn't prefer Christians over anyone else.

 

[garrydons]

yes it is true that even the righteous will suffer but God is only testing him. And if we say that the Bible is wrong just because it did not work with us alone, maybe what we need here to have to vote coz for me the Bible is really true when it says: God will bless those who do right and punish or curse those who do wrong.

 

[sweetie]

The poorest of the poor who lived in the slums since childhood do not know they are suffering having used to taking shelter from the rain under an improvised roof, ate their meals on the floor, wash their dirty bodies with water from the well, they earn their livelihood through begging. But do they consider themselves similar to those who jump from tall buildings after knowing they are bankrupt or who have found out their wives had affairs when other men, or those who are considered very religious and yet are suffering from cancer, incurable sexually transmitted diseases & physical deformities? In other words, suffering is just a state of mind. An example is a sadist who love to inflict pain to masochist.

 

[Heathen Hammer]

The problem with you is that you believe God is limited to your understanding. Try to understand. I don't understand everything myself, but I have faith that I will eventually.

No, the problem is the facts are plain, but because you've been forcefully indoctrinated to fear your torturor, you refuse to accept that he is to blame for your suffering; because if you blame him aloud, you fear he'll inflict MORE suffering on you.

There is no 'higher understanding'. It's just the excuse you use to reject understanding. The psychological term is 'cognitive dissonance'.

 

[garrydons]

Dear Sweetie, I think a sadist is not normal. We may condition our mind to still feel better or happy despite of being in the state of suffering but the reality is still there. some are suffering and some are not. That Despite these present human sufferings, there is life after death, were the righteous will be rewarded a life without pain and sorrow. A life of happiness and joy

 

[Heathen Hammer]

Dear Sweetie, I think a sadist is not normal. We may condition our mind to still feel better or happy despite of being in the state of suffering but the reality is still there. some are suffering and some are not. That Despite these present human sufferings, there is life after death, were the righteous will be rewarded a life without pain and sorrow. A life of happiness and joy

And how can you be righteous if you are fine with the suffering of those who aren't, in your afterlife?

Everything is great in this system as long as it doesn't happen to you, hm?

 

[Astravalon]

If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

This is just my two cents, and please forgive me if any of the
following has already been addressed; I hadn't read each and
every post in the 16+ pages worth of discussion so far.

I could understand this question if it were a case that there was
nothing but suffering, all the time, for everyone, with no letup in
sight, ever.

Then we would have to establish how much of said suffering is
perceived as "suffering" by the ones going through it versus simply
"challenges to be overcome", because such distinctions are
contingent upon the perceptions of those involved. After all, there
are those who appear to have everything going for them, but inside
they're literally suffering. Then there are others who appear to be
going through hell-on-earth but later it's discovered that they were,
in zenlike fashion, relishing the challenge and benefiting from it,
looking back on it and declaring they wouldn't have had it any other
way given how enriching their experience turned out to be. And
other variations on those two themes. So it's not so black-
and-white as the above question suggests.

On top of all that, given that there's also so much non-suffering in
the world, the underlying 'Suffering = No God' message has even
less to support it.

At any rate, my question then becomes this: Must my life be all
unicorns and rainbows before I'm allowed to believe there's a Deity?
And if this world is, indeed, just plain overflowing with suffering, why
would I want to compound the misery by believing and/or preaching
that there's no God who can/will deliver from it? I would want to
lessen the pain, not increase it, lol!

Again, just my two cents.





.

 

[godnotgod]

I could understand this question if it were a case that there was
nothing but suffering, all the time, for everyone, with no letup in
sight, ever.

Yes, that is one important thing to note: suffering and pleasure are temporal states. That suggests that, upon their cessation, one finds oneself immersed into the background against which both occur. And if that background is or includes a God, could it be that He/She/It may have been quietly sitting there the entire time, up on the hillside where the unicorns frolic amidst the rainbows, lol, having had nothing to do with 'allowing' our sufferings and pleasures, and who might utter something like: 'Are you quite through with the Big Act?....because what I REALLY wanted to show you is .....THIS!....uh...when you're ready, of course. Only leave your baggage behind.'

 

[waitasec]

If God exists, why does God allow so much suffering?

perhaps it's the labels some put on the idea of god that cannot reconcile needless suffering