Decent Opposition

[Rival]

There's pretty much a black and white attitude in politics these days, with each side branding the other 'Fascists' or 'ideology driven idiots' or whatever other defamatory words are used. It's led me to ask, What would you see as decent opposition? If you're on the right or the left, what would you accept as being not in some way totally intrinsically evil political opposition? It seems no matter what these days if you're on x side you're a Fascist or a neo-Soviet or whatever else with absolutely no room whatsoever to just be part of a political platform that has different views.

I mean, I'm on the right, but I accept as a given that the left supports things I don't, such as higher taxes, globalisation (generally), high migration, gay marriage, unionising and so on. I don't think this makes them intrinsically evil; I do think if these policies are implemented it will not be good for my country, but will it be literally the end of the UK? Probably not. I can listen to some on the left and understand their arguments, their economic ones in particular, and take some on board - as many European Conservatives have done in the past.

So what would you see as legitimate, good opposition? Be reasonable, don't just say 'They agree with me on everything except xyz', because that just defeats the point.

 

[Vinayaka]

There's pretty much a black and white attitude in politics these days, with each side branding the other 'Fascists' or 'ideology driven idiots' or whatever other defamatory words are used. It's led me to ask, What would you see as decent opposition? If you're on the right or the left, what would you accept as being not in some way totally intrinsically evil political opposition? It seems no matter what these days if you're on x side you're a Fascist or a neo-Soviet or whatever else with absolutely no room whatsoever to just be part of a political platform that has different views.

I mean, I'm on the right, but I accept as a given that the left supports things I don't, such as higher taxes, globalisation (generally), high migration, gay marriage, unionising and so on. I don't think this makes them intrinsically evil; I do think if these policies are implemented it will not be good for my country, but will it be literally the end of the UK? Probably not. I can listen to some on the left and understand their arguments, their economic ones in particular, and take some on board - as many European Conservatives have done in the past.

So what would you see as legitimate, good opposition? Be reasonable, don't just say 'They agree with me on everything except xyz', because that just defeats the point.

How large do you think 'the fence' is in terms of %? 3? 5? It seems to me it's shrinking.

 

[Rival]

How large do you think 'the fence' is in terms of %? 3? 5? It seems to me it's shrinking.

What's this in British?

 

[Heyo]

There's pretty much a black and white attitude in politics these days, with each side branding the other 'Fascists' or 'ideology driven idiots' or whatever other defamatory words are used. It's led me to ask, What would you see as decent opposition? If you're on the right or the left, what would you accept as being not in some way totally intrinsically evil political opposition? It seems no matter what these days if you're on x side you're a Fascist or a neo-Soviet or whatever else with absolutely no room whatsoever to just be part of a political platform that has different views.

I mean, I'm on the right, but I accept as a given that the left supports things I don't, such as higher taxes, globalisation (generally), high migration, gay marriage, unionising and so on. I don't think this makes them intrinsically evil; I do think if these policies are implemented it will not be good for my country, but will it be literally the end of the UK? Probably not. I can listen to some on the left and understand their arguments, their economic ones in particular, and take some on board - as many European Conservatives have done in the past.

So what would you see as legitimate, good opposition? Be reasonable, don't just say 'They agree with me on everything except xyz', because that just defeats the point.

• They agree largely with the "Grundgesetz" (constitution) and the political process.
• Their propositions are largely realistic.
• They keep their hypocrisy to a minimum.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Some things get branded as fascist because they are fascistic. There is a world of difference between, for example, a Bush regime and a Trump regime, or between a party that rallies around Liz Chaney and a party that rallies around Marjorie Taylor Greene.

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

What's this in British?

I think he's referring to "being on the fence"; to be unable or to not care enough to make a decision.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

There's pretty much a black and white attitude in politics these days, with each side branding the other 'Fascists' or 'ideology driven idiots' or whatever other defamatory words are used. It's led me to ask, What would you see as decent opposition? If you're on the right or the left, what would you accept as being not in some way totally intrinsically evil political opposition? It seems no matter what these days if you're on x side you're a Fascist or a neo-Soviet or whatever else with absolutely no room whatsoever to just be part of a political platform that has different views.

I mean, I'm on the right, but I accept as a given that the left supports things I don't, such as higher taxes, globalisation (generally), high migration, gay marriage, unionising and so on. I don't think this makes them intrinsically evil; I do think if these policies are implemented it will not be good for my country, but will it be literally the end of the UK? Probably not. I can listen to some on the left and understand their arguments, their economic ones in particular, and take some on board - as many European Conservatives have done in the past.

So what would you see as legitimate, good opposition? Be reasonable, don't just say 'They agree with me on everything except xyz', because that just defeats the point.

As a Dane a good compromise and that includes the other sides as I see more than left and right.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Some things get branded as fascist because they are fascistic. There is a world of difference between, for example, a Bush regime and a Trump regime, or between a party that rallies around Liz Chaney and a party that rallies around Marjorie Taylor Greene.

What would you say is the difference? Perhaps more significantly, was Bush's regime any more or less destructive toward human life than Trump's?

 

[Rival]

Is it possible that the party that is opposing yours can not be evil?

 

[Sand Dancer]

There's pretty much a black and white attitude in politics these days, with each side branding the other 'Fascists' or 'ideology driven idiots' or whatever other defamatory words are used. It's led me to ask, What would you see as decent opposition? If you're on the right or the left, what would you accept as being not in some way totally intrinsically evil political opposition? It seems no matter what these days if you're on x side you're a Fascist or a neo-Soviet or whatever else with absolutely no room whatsoever to just be part of a political platform that has different views.

I mean, I'm on the right, but I accept as a given that the left supports things I don't, such as higher taxes, globalisation (generally), high migration, gay marriage, unionising and so on. I don't think this makes them intrinsically evil; I do think if these policies are implemented it will not be good for my country, but will it be literally the end of the UK? Probably not. I can listen to some on the left and understand their arguments, their economic ones in particular, and take some on board - as many European Conservatives have done in the past.

So what would you see as legitimate, good opposition? Be reasonable, don't just say 'They agree with me on everything except xyz', because that just defeats the point.

I would like to see some centrist GOP candidates that would: 1) Be more flexible about abortion, allowing it at least through the first trimester, then after that only if there were serious issues with woman/baby. 2) Put the gay marriage issue to rest. If a church doesn't want to have a SS ceremony, so be it, but don't make it illegal across the board. 3) Keep separation of church and state. People should learn about their religions in their places of worship.

I would vote for a centrist GOP or Dem, depending on who has the better ideas. Fiscally, I don't mind conservatism so much, but I can't abide social conservatism.

 

[Nakosis]

There's pretty much a black and white attitude in politics these days, with each side branding the other 'Fascists' or 'ideology driven idiots' or whatever other defamatory words are used. It's led me to ask, What would you see as decent opposition? If you're on the right or the left, what would you accept as being not in some way totally intrinsically evil political opposition? It seems no matter what these days if you're on x side you're a Fascist or a neo-Soviet or whatever else with absolutely no room whatsoever to just be part of a political platform that has different views.

I mean, I'm on the right, but I accept as a given that the left supports things I don't, such as higher taxes, globalisation (generally), high migration, gay marriage, unionising and so on. I don't think this makes them intrinsically evil; I do think if these policies are implemented it will not be good for my country, but will it be literally the end of the UK? Probably not. I can listen to some on the left and understand their arguments, their economic ones in particular, and take some on board - as many European Conservatives have done in the past.

So what would you see as legitimate, good opposition? Be reasonable, don't just say 'They agree with me on everything except xyz', because that just defeats the point.

I try to stay apolitical just because it seems hard for folks not to become emotional when it comes to politics.
I don't feel like I fit in a party because it feel like it is mostly all or nothing instead of being able to pick the best/better ideas.

Anyone strongly in a party I don't expect decent opposition. It's mostly going to be about what is wrong with other party(s).

 

[sun rise]

So what would you see as legitimate, good opposition?

@Jayhawker Soule answered for me:

between a party that rallies around Liz Chaney and a party that rallies around Marjorie Taylor Greene.

There's a vast difference between a party composed of honorable people who have very different ways of approaching real problems and one that is actively trying to tear down American institutions.

I take the situation in the UK as being the former even though the Tory policies seem utterly stupid to me.

Is it possible that the party that is opposing yours can not be evil?

We are faced in the US with a party who is using the Nazi "big lie" technique to seize and hold power. That is evil.

The US is facing an existential threat to our future and it's not from Russia or China. It is from the current "republican" party.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Is it possible that the party that is opposing yours can not be evil?

Yes. And it is also possible it is evil.

 

[Debater Slayer]

There's a vast difference between a party composed of honorable people who have very different ways of approaching real problems and one that is actively trying to tear down American institutions.

Would you say the Bush regime was "composed of honorable people" when they initiated two wars, killed over half a million people, and widened the use of torture?

What kind of message do you think such a statement sends to people abroad who have been harmed by American military aggression and state-sanctioned torture?

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

There's pretty much a black and white attitude in politics these days, with each side branding the other 'Fascists' or 'ideology driven idiots' or whatever other defamatory words are used. It's led me to ask, What would you see as decent opposition?

I'll give you the perspective of an American liberal.

For the right to be considered the loyal opposition, it would need to support the principles of Americanism (democracy, secularism, rule of law, egalitarianism, etc.) and agree that the purpose of the federal government is, as the Preamble says, to attend to the needs of ordinary people.

There must also be a large degree of forbearance returned, that is, the left must be acknowledged as the loyal opposition with a legitimate role in governance, the way two competing sports teams would interact rather than how a drug cartel would view its competition as enemy needing to be neutralized.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

There's a quote that I like that goes like 'we can disagree on how to feed the homeless but not that the homeless should be fed.' The former is a policy question, the latter is a question of values.

 

[Rival]

But what actual policies would everyone expect the opposition to support?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

But what actual policies would everyone expect the opposition to support?

Here in the US I expect the opposition to support legal and accessible gay marriage. Marriage doesn't and shouldn't belong to the Christian or other religious body when two people of any religion or non-religion can get married according to no religious authority. Marriage in the US especially has a material benefit towards families and isn't just a piece of paper.
I expect the opposition to oppose gay marriage in their churches if it's against their religion, but not in the state, which shouldn't give a **** what their religious creed is.

 

[Rival]

Here in the US I expect the opposition the support gay marriage. Marriage doesn't and shouldn't belong to the Christian or other religious body when two people of any religion or non-religion can get married according to no religious authority. Marriage in the US especially has a material benefit towards families and isn't just a piece of paper.
I expect the opposition to Oppose gay marriage in their churches if it's against their religion, but not in the state, which shouldn't give a **** what their religious creed is.

So I'm seeing a lot of 'You can be conservative just don't be socially conservative'

Which is, imo, saying 'you can be conservative as long as you're not actually conservative'/ 'You can be conservative as long as you support the left's moral positions'?

This is kind of making my point.

'You get to be the opposition as long as you agree with me.'

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So I'm seeing a lot of 'You can be conservative just don't be socially conservative'

Which is, imo, saying 'you can be conservative without actually being conservative'/ 'You can be conservative as long as you support the left's moral positions'?

This is kind of making my point.

'You get to be the opposition as long as you agree with me.'

You an be socially conservative without trying to violate establishment clause and place religious restrictions on civil law. I will not respect those that do.