Defend Hell

[CarlinKnew]

If you believe in a place of eternal punishment after death, Why do you think it should it exist?

Here are some common arguments to start things off.

A) We need justice, so those who are evil need to be punished.
In response to this I simply ask, why? What purpose does vengeance serve? Every religion that I've come across teaches that seeking vengeance only leads to suffering and that forgiveness is necessary for enlightenment. Do you value vengeance more than compassion?

B) Those who choose to go to hell must want it to exist, so it's only fair to give them what they want.
This is often accompanied by, "Hell is merely a separation from God, not a place of physical torture (but it's still a terrible place to spend eternity)." There is a big difference between choosing to go to hell and choosing to do evil things. No one in their right mind would choose to spend eternity in a place of despair.

C) Hell is necessary to make heaven a meaningful reward.
I don't think I've ever heard this stated outright, but it's often implied. Why can't we all win and enjoy heaven together? Do you need to know that others are losing in order to feel like you're winning?

Why do you think hell should exist?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Hell must exist if Heaven exists. This is why I'm a Unitarian instead of a Universalist. Now I'm fine with the concept of no Heaven or Hell but you can't have one without the other. I suppose its the Taoist coming out in me.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Hell must exist if Heaven exists. This is why I'm a Unitarian instead of a Universalist. Now I'm fine with the concept of no Heaven or Hell but you can't have one without the other. I suppose its the Taoist coming out in me.

.
Why?

 

[Bob Dixon]

Hell must exist if Heaven exists.

How is that even good logic?

 

[Nakosis]

In this thread I ask you to defend your concept of hell. All that I'm concerned with is: Why do you think it should it exist?

Here are some common arguments to start things off.

A) We need justice, so those who are evil need to be punished.
In response to this I simply ask, why? What purpose does vengeance serve? Every religion that I've come across teaches that seeking vengeance only leads to suffering and that forgiveness is necessary for enlightenment. Do you value vengeance more than compassion?

B) Those who go to hell send themselves. It's not God's fault that they chose hell.
This is often accompanied by, "Hell is merely a separation from God, not a place of physical torture (but it's still a terrible place to spend eternity)." There is a big difference between choosing to go to hell and choosing to do evil things. No one in their right mind would choose to spend eternity in a place of despair.

C) Hell is necessary to make heaven a meaningful reward.
I don't think I've ever heard this stated outright, but it's often implied. Why can't we all win and enjoy heaven together? Do you need to know that others are losing in order to feel like you're winning?

Why do you think hell should exist?

My idea of hell is earth. A place of continual suffering that we choose because we are tempted by sin. Hell/Earth is where the spirit is purified with pain and suffering cause by it's attachment to materialism.

So A, it's not justice but a necessary process of purification.

B, our desire for sin/materialism keep us here. Like trying to possess fire by trying to grasp the burning flames. One keeps getting burned until they let go.

C, One cannot enter Heaven while still tempted by sin. Our desire for sin keeps us here. Our materialistic desires keeps us in the fire.

An individual spirit progresses at it's own pace. Some learning to let go of earthly desires, while others remain very stubborn about it. Any can enter heaven when they are willing. No one here is truly willing to let go of sin. Else they wouldn't be here.

That's my concept of Hell.

 

[bobhikes]

I like challenges especially when I don't agree with the concept. Defending it allows me to learn.

When I think of Hell, I can't defend it all I can do is allow it.

If there is a God and he created all this God can decided what God wants to do with all this.


If said God creates Hell, then this God is not a God I wish to exist.

 

[Alex_G]

In this thread I ask you to defend your concept of hell. All that I'm concerned with is: Why do you think it should it exist?

Here are some common arguments to start things off.

A) We need justice, so those who are evil need to be punished.
In response to this I simply ask, why? What purpose does vengeance serve? Every religion that I've come across teaches that seeking vengeance only leads to suffering and that forgiveness is necessary for enlightenment. Do you value vengeance more than compassion?

B) Those who go to hell send themselves. It's not God's fault that they chose hell.
This is often accompanied by, "Hell is merely a separation from God, not a place of physical torture (but it's still a terrible place to spend eternity)." There is a big difference between choosing to go to hell and choosing to do evil things. No one in their right mind would choose to spend eternity in a place of despair.

C) Hell is necessary to make heaven a meaningful reward.
I don't think I've ever heard this stated outright, but it's often implied. Why can't we all win and enjoy heaven together? Do you need to know that others are losing in order to feel like you're winning?

Why do you think hell should exist?

As you ask for the defence of 'your concept of hell', i assume there is some flexibility in what we are talking about.

In talking about hell, i dont share any literal religious interpretation of it, but can imagine and semi rationalise a possible version of it. If hell were to exist i would think it might exist as follows.

I imagine that in the last moments of your life, when at the point of death, your consciousness slowly converges to zero. So as death sets in, and hypoxic damage to the brain starts, your sense of time and ur surroundings for example start to slow. Due to the stresses of death, the brain will start firing random synapses which would account for the 'life flashing before your eyes' phenomenon. This can be compared to the nervous response to huge fear, where the classic and un-intentional urination occurs. With these 2 concepts in mind, i can create a realistic situation of heaven and hell, where as your brain function slows and converges to zero, alongside your flashbacks, u will effectively life forever in your past experiences. (As far as the consciousness is concerned). This new dimension of existence lasting forever and yet ony for an instant, could be simply classed as a good or bad experience. In effect a version of heaven and hell as far as the person in question.

One would be honestly confronted with how your life had been lived, without any agendas or strings attached with ones experience of reflection being the very reality of the heaven/hell . Additionally there is no need for God in this interpretation, which i tend to prefer.

This tends to be as far as i would go in the denfence of hell's existence.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

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Why?

How is that even good logic?

First off let me say I don't believe in the traditional Heaven and Hell. But, I do believe that the universe is a balance of positive and negative energies. So, if Heaven did exist, it would have to have something to balance it. If a place of absolute good existed then a place of absolute evil would have to also exist in order to maintain the balance of the universe. I realise that this logic is much more Taoist than Christian but that's the beauty of being a Unitarian Universalist, I can pick and choose as I like.

 

[Erebus]

Why do you think hell should exist?

There has to be somewhere to keep all the world's interesting, charismatic people. That might as well be the place that gave us rock music, free love, Gothic literature and strong liquor.

 

[arthra]

I think George Carlin passed away a few years ago...but I don't know think he went to "hell".

But I do lean toward the following to an extent:

Those who go to hell send themselves. It's not God's fault that they chose hell.
This is often accompanied by, "Hell is merely a separation from God, not a place of physical torture (but it's still a terrible place to spend eternity)." There is a big difference between choosing to go to hell and choosing to do evil things. No one in their right mind would choose to spend eternity in a place of despair.

I'm not sure though and according to my religion, hell is not for eternity.. It's more of a condition of the soul..

They say: 'Where is Paradise, and where is Hell?' Say: 'The one is reunion with Me; the other thine own self..."

(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 132)

Light must be spread afar, so that, in the school of humanity, all may acquire the heavenly characteristics of the spirit, and see for themselves beyond any doubt that there is no fiercer hell, no more fiery abyss, than to possess a character that is evil and unsound; no more darksome pit nor loathsome torment than to show forth qualities which deserve to be condemned.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 136)

Think ye of love and good fellowship as the delights of heaven, think ye of hostility and hatred as the torments of hell.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 245)

So "hell" starts here ...where we are.. and we do make a choice I believe.

 

[Rhadamanthus]

The Christian concept of Hell is off course borrowed from Greek concept of Hell(Hades), it even borrowed the word "hades".

As according, this is what Hell/Heaven is, it is split into 3 levels.

Tartarus (where damned souls go) (Bad)
Asphodel Meadows (where the neutral souls go) (Neutral)
Elysian Fields (where heroic souls go) (Good)

 

[waitasec]

How is that even good logic?

balance.

 

[CarlinKnew]

Right, I forgot we have such a diverse community here. Thanks for the replies but I was referring to the most popular, traditional concept of hell. I'll do some editing.

 

[elmarna]

I think it is a reference to maintain "consequences".
While punishment is 1 concept afiliated with it - it is not the only aspect of the thinking I have.
I am not feeling well today and do not see it as a good idea to write all my ways I approach the subject matter.
In the realm of my phylosophy toward hell it is a ideology that points toward the negative for the most part (not all of it).

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Hell was only invented by ancient executioners to make people more afraid of death when just the threat of the death penalty was not enough.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Right, I forgot we have such a diverse community here. Thanks for the replies but I was referring to the most popular, traditional concept of hell. I'll do some editing.

I see no justification for the traditional concept of Hell, that is why I rejected it in the first place.

 

[Nakosis]

Right, I forgot we have such a diverse community here. Thanks for the replies but I was referring to the most popular, traditional concept of hell. I'll do some editing.

I wonder, other then a few specific groups, there are many Christians which still hold to this "traditional" view of Hell. Most I talk to don't but that's a small anecdotal survey.

I run across an occasional fanatic on a forum, but not many. From my experience Christian views are constantly evolving. Probably no reason to think any specific Christian doctrine remains fundamental to the religion.

Too many "False Prophets" in the mix I suppose.

 

[idav]

If there is a hell it shouldn't be eternal. Even with the argument that everything we do effects a multitude of people and events into the future. We can't possibly sin in a way that it effects everything eternally especially if god is fixing to wipe out the planet.

 

[connermt]

If you believe in a place of eternal punishment after death, Why do you think it should it exist?

Here are some common arguments to start things off.

A) We need justice, so those who are evil need to be punished.
In response to this I simply ask, why? What purpose does vengeance serve? Every religion that I've come across teaches that seeking vengeance only leads to suffering and that forgiveness is necessary for enlightenment. Do you value vengeance more than compassion?

B) Those who choose to go to hell must want it to exist, so it's only fair to give them what they want.
This is often accompanied by, "Hell is merely a separation from God, not a place of physical torture (but it's still a terrible place to spend eternity)." There is a big difference between choosing to go to hell and choosing to do evil things. No one in their right mind would choose to spend eternity in a place of despair.

C) Hell is necessary to make heaven a meaningful reward.
I don't think I've ever heard this stated outright, but it's often implied. Why can't we all win and enjoy heaven together? Do you need to know that others are losing in order to feel like you're winning?

Why do you think hell should exist?

Hell is such a terrible concept. There is no good reason to defend it unless you thrive on people suffering while thinking you won't.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

An all-powerful god can do whatever it wants. It needs no reason or logic. I suppose this might explain a lot about those who claim a belief in such a god as well.