• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Define Universe

Tiapan

Grumpy Old Man
When I was brought up the Universe contained "ÄLL" since the big bang. I am now a science teacher and when approached by those of a religious bent I explain it this way. Like a concentric pool of Venn Diagrams I explain here is the Universe and here is that we do know and here is that we don't know. Although god does not exist in the "known to me" (evidence) Universe, but I cannot presuppose he does not exist in the realm that is not known. What we do know is mathematics is universal, physics is its manifestation in mass, energy, space and time. As a subset of this is chemistry the electronic interactions of matter. Then Biology, sentience, psychology, sociology, religion, science and technology and information. We are part of an amazing experiment of chaos resulting in sentience and evolution. The drive is to improve....health, longevity, wealth, standard of living quality of life. We are part of an evolutionary process. We are neither the start nor the end of this process which will last several million years and we may have as much resemblance to future man as us and Australopithecus.
Results form the Hubble telescope and other deep space analysis, indicate matter, physics and chemistry on the other side of the universe and basically the same as here.

Getting back to the original topic, where what I was after is, what are the limits of the universe. Consider the Big Bang , expanding over time 13.8 BYO matter spreads out behind a massive burst of light radiation, followed by subatomic particles eg electrons followed by "chunky matter" (us). While in religious terms God is beyond all this scientific stuff and can just whip up the whole Universe of amazing complexity, in a few seconds, that is really cool if was true. The problem is the quandary of contradictions of where did god come form, what mechanism of his interaction with our world etc etc.


Taking the scientific definition we are the product of a "Big Bang" phenomena, our egocentric aptitude blinded us to the possibility that this may not be a unique event. Quasars are a phenomena that show a brilliance of thousands of galaxies, are these other local "Big Bangs". All things in the Universe rotate so it is odds on the whole universe rotates. Russian and Canadian estimates this rate as 10^-13 rad/sec a very slow rate. But wind back the clock 13.8 billion years and our universe would have been spinning a lot faster (remember the spinning ice skater that pulls in her arms and spins faster to maintain her angular momentum?). this leads to a figure of about 30,000 km because beyond that particles would have to violate the speed of light axiom of our physics.Where did the Universal angular momentum come from?
Is this evidence of a previously collapsing earlier universe? A perpetual oscillation between energy and matter?

Perhaps a "Big Bang occurs when a spinning black hole gathers so much matter that its diameter reaches this light speed circumference value destabilizes and initiates the next Big Bang.

Some black holes may spin at different rates so fast ones explode earlier, but slow ones are far more powerful.

What is your definition?
Cheers
 
Last edited:

Terese

Mangalam Pundarikakshah
Staff member
Premium Member
Our reality is our universe. (Or even our universe is just one part of reality)
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
I think this kind of word is so reliant on context as to be all but useless in any kind of technical discussion. It was coined to cover a relatively simplistic concept and as our understanding of what is has developed and expanded, that concept turns out to be (probably) more complicated than first thought. You get additional complications with the introduction of matters of faith (religious or otherwise) and people deliberately defining terms with ulterior motives (such as talking about God existing outside the universe to account for the practical issues with such a being’s existence).

For casual discussion, it means whatever it needs to from context and for technical discussions, all the concepts need specific definition and could really have any labels attached to them. In one context you could talk about multiple universes (and maybe a “multiverse” in which they exist) while in another, “the universe” could be defined to mean literally everything that exists.

Of course, you can also talk about things like “The Star Wars Universe” or “a universal adapter” which mean something else entirely. Sometimes language is more trouble than it’s worth. :)
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Everything that we can observe, and everything we can't.

We can speculate about what else might be "out there" but it remains speculation.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Because of what we now know about QM, which granted is very little, it's becoming more probable that we are part of a multiverse. Also, because of the study of the "afterglow", some cosmologists do believe it is possible that they may be able to figure out the general dynamics of inflation in terms of what event(s) may have led up to it. A "speck" emanating from a black hole is considered to be in the running.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
In my pantheistic non-dual (God and creation are not-two) thinking, the universe is matter and energy. We often think of just the aspect within the range of our senses and instruments as the universe but 95% of the universe is undetectable at this time by our senses and instruments. From my study of the paranormal and eastern teachings I believe there are many subtle realms to this universe that are real and that spiritual teachers have experienced beyond the 'known' physical. But ultimately I believe the universe is all a play of consciousness (Brahman) and that consciousness is something beyond the physical. The universe is the creative aspect of the divine. Consciousness is the primary reality and the universe is a derivative of consciousness. What 'consciousness is' we can not bet behind as one famous quantum physicist put it.
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Briefly:

We live in one universe which has 3 dimensions of space.

I have calculated that there must be other such universes all which
exist in a 4-dimensional multiverse. Consider each 3-d universe
to be akin to a '4-d planet'. As we live 'on the surface' of this,
we only observe its 3-d spatial form, but we can subtly detect
that it must be a 4-d object.

Each universe spins on its own 'axis' whilst in 'orbit' around
another greater '4-d sun'.

This replaces the 'Big Bang':

http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/big-unwind.htm

This is a summary of Dark Energy
which concludes in 'The Big Unwind'.

http://www.flight-light-and-spin.com/dark-energy.htm

The Soul itself is at least a 4-d object.
This must be true because a 2-d object cannot contain within it a 3-d object.
So if we can make 4-d calculations, then the Mind cannot be contained within a 3-d brain.

;-j
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
In my pantheistic non-dual (God and creation are not-two) thinking, the universe is matter and energy. We often think of just the aspect within the range of our senses and instruments as the universe but 95% of the universe is undetectable at this time by our senses and instruments. From my study of the paranormal and eastern teachings I believe there are many subtle realms to this universe that are real and that spiritual teachers have experienced beyond the 'known' physical. But ultimately I believe the universe is all a play of consciousness (Brahman) and that consciousness is something beyond the physical. The universe is the creative aspect of the divine. Consciousness is the primary reality and the universe is a derivative of consciousness. What 'consciousness is' we can not bet behind as one famous quantum physicist put it.

The Catch-22 with non-duality is that if you say the universe is matter and energy you are comparing it to something that is not matter and energy.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
The Catch-22 with non-duality is that if you say the universe is matter and energy you are comparing it to something that is not matter and energy.
Consciousness is primary and the material is a derivative of consciousness. In the ultimate sense then, matter and energy are Maya/Illusion and Consciousness/Brahman is the only 'Real'. What is the 'Catch-22' I may not be seeing here?
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Consciousness is primary and the material is a derivative of consciousness. In the ultimate sense then, matter and energy are Maya/Illusion and Consciousness/Brahman is the only 'Real'. What is the 'Catch-22' I may not be seeing here?


How can you define "consciousness" without "unconsciousness". I, too, espouse non-duality, but we are not equip to define nor even grasp it in our present embodiment, imo.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
How can you define "consciousness" without "unconsciousness". I, too, espouse non-duality, but we are not equip to define nor even grasp it in our present embodiment, imo.
Well as one who doesn't like to go too overboard on deep philosophical questions, I would say 'Consciousness' is fundamental and in being 'fundamental' it can not be understood (broken down) as anything but itself (so I think I am in agreement with the last part of what you said). I guess I am content to say at this time I can not get behind what consciousness really is. Perhaps on my day of Self-Realization I can experience it, but will lose that experience when returning to my normal thinking consciousness.
 

BSM1

What? Me worry?
Well as one who doesn't like to go too overboard on deep philosophical questions, I would say 'Consciousness' is fundamental and in being 'fundamental' it can not be understood (broken down) as anything but itself (so I think I am in agreement with the last part of what you said). I guess I am content to say at this time I can not get behind what consciousness really is. Perhaps on my day of Self-Realization I can experience it, but will lose that experience when returning to my normal thinking consciousness.

I was just saying we cannot know what consciousness is unless there is unconsciousness; thus there goes our non-duality shot to hell.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
I was just saying we cannot know what consciousness is unless there is unconsciousness; thus there goes our non-duality shot to hell.

The test of a first rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposite ideas in mind at the same time and still retain the ability to function….F.Scott Fitzgerald

All behavior consists of opposites...learn to see things backward, inside out, and upside down. Lao Tzu
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
I agree with this definition . . .
“there is one Universe, consisting of the totality of existence. Within it are the objective universe (whose components occupy time and space) and each sentient beings subjective universe. The subjective universe may be thought of as one's personal perspective on the objective universe, together with any self‑created phenomena one wishes to add to it." - Dr. Michael Aquino
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
I was just saying we cannot know what consciousness is unless there is unconsciousness; thus there goes our non-duality shot to hell.
Perhaps everything is consciousness in ways different from human consciousness. I'm beginning to sound like Deepak Chopra which, at least in my opinion, isn't so bad but it goes beyond my more humble understandings.
 
Top