DEI driven community college curriculum, argh!

[Quintessence]

I took a look at your thread from last year. I would say that you were discussing indigenous WISDOM (which I think is a good thing), but I don't think what you were describing is SCIENCE.

Yes, that's precisely the sort of cultural bias that was discussed in the seminar I went to. You would have learned a lot from it, perhaps.

But in STEM topics?????? Please give me a few examples of how these DEI ideas would improve STEM teaching.

Well, I already gave you the one. As someone who included a study of the philosophy of science in their master's program, really examining what we do and don't consider to be "science" - and the cultural biases that come with how we view it in the West - is beneficial if not essential. When I think about the fact that my philosophy of science coursework didn't even cover that, today I consider it a massive oversight. We can (and should) do better. University is all about deepening and broadening our intellectual horizons, so representation of diverse cultural understandings of the world is part and parcel with what university IS. I could see it being a bit overly-complex for lower levels of education - maybe start getting into that during high school at the earliest - but it is very appropriate for university.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, pulling phrases from the document, it seems teachers ought to be teaching ideas like:

- culturally sensitive Ohm's law
- gender fluid trigonometry
- collectively derived calculus
- Islamic electrical engineering

Anything of valid, real substance or just a rambling mouth with what looks like some foam in the corners?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

- Dismantle institutional deference to hierarchies that perpetuate barriers.

- Move as a faculty collective toward antiracist critical consciousness.

- Take care not to “weaponize” academic freedom and academic integrity as tools to impede equity in an academic discipline or inflict curricular trauma on our students, especially historically marginalized students.

I think it's a bit late on the "Take care not to weaponize academic freedom", front.
The weirdest part of all is that some folks actually want this garbage taught to people.
We need to do better.

How is it garbage to not weaponize academic freedom and integrity? How is any of that garbage?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

- that current training is systemically racist (and by implication that Western culture is systemically racist)

Why is that so hard for people to accept? American society is massively biased against multiple groups. Race, disability, religion, neuroduversity, women, this culture heavily stacks the cards against more than a few groups and it does expect everyone to be like the main group, even if that isn't possible.

 

[icehorse]

Yes, that's precisely the sort of cultural bias that was discussed in the seminar I went to. You would have learned a lot from it, perhaps.

Only if you bend the definition of "science". How are you defining "science"?

Well, I already gave you the one. As someone who included a study of the philosophy of science in their master's program, really examining what we do and don't consider to be "science" - and the cultural biases that come with how we view it in the West - is beneficial if not essential. When I think about the fact that my philosophy of science coursework didn't even cover that, today I consider it a massive oversight. We can (and should) do better. University is all about deepening and broadening our intellectual horizons, so representation of diverse cultural understandings of the world is part and parcel with what university IS. I could see it being a bit overly-complex for lower levels of education - maybe start getting into that during high school at the earliest - but it is very appropriate for university.

I was specifically referring to STEM topics. Can you give an example from physics or chemistry or math that would be at all dependent on a cultural perspective?

 

[icehorse]

Why is that so hard for people to accept? American society is massively biased against multiple groups. Race, disability, religion, neuroduversity, women, this culture heavily stacks the cards against more than a few groups and it does expect everyone to be like the main group, even if that isn't possible.

For the sake of discussion, let's say I grant you all of that. How does that apply to teaching or learning physics or chemistry or math?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

For the sake of discussion, let's say I grant you all of that. How does that apply to teaching or learning physics or chemistry or math?

It's being aware that boys have been traditionally favored in STEM classes and making efforts to work past that and help erase that from society by giving girls just as much attention and tutoring as boys get and evaluating students by the same standards rather than seeing boys who naturally belong there (it actually also hurts boys as well, particularly those who struggle but are assumed competent due to being male) and silly girls who shouldn't be there.
The math amd science itself doesn't change.

 

[Soandso]

Meh... So?

This feels like the firstest of world problems, assuming it's actually true and not blown away out of proportion as per usual

 

[icehorse]

It's being aware that boys have been traditionally favored in STEM classes and making efforts to work past that and help erase that from society by giving girls just as much attention and tutoring as boys get and evaluating students by the same standards rather than seeing boys who naturally belong there (it actually also hurts boys as well, particularly those who struggle but are assumed competent due to being male) and silly girls who shouldn't be there.
The math amd science itself doesn't change.

The document I provided is making suggestions completely different than what you just said.

 

[Orbit]

For the sake of discussion, let's say I grant you all of that. How does that apply to teaching or learning physics or chemistry or math?

Culture does matter in how science is done. See "Whose Science, Whose Knowledge?" by Sandra Harding for a factual account of how gender norms have shaped how science is done.

 

[icehorse]

Culture does matter in how science is done. See "Whose Science, Whose Knowledge?" by Sandra Harding for a factual account of how gender norms have shaped how science is done.

The document I provided is making suggestions far broader than just gender norms. The OP is about what's specifically being recommened in California, based on the document I provided. thanks

 

[icehorse]

Culture does matter in how science is done. See "Whose Science, Whose Knowledge?" by Sandra Harding for a factual account of how gender norms have shaped how science is done.

I checked out the summary page and reviews on Amazon. This book appears to make some of the same assumptions that the DEI document is making. So for example, it appears that you have to accept the "oppressed / oppressor" worldview for either the book or the DEI document to make much sense. It seems clear that they would probably support each other, but that doesn't prove much.

 

[The Hammer]

Just to be clear, do you think the DEI document is consistent with what you just said?

Yes

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The document I provided is making suggestions completely different than what you just said.

No, it's actually closer to what I said. You just don't want to see it because you'd rather see your biases, which you made very clear with this:

So, pulling phrases from the document, it seems teachers ought to be teaching ideas like:

- culturally sensitive Ohm's law
- gender fluid trigonometry
- collectively derived calculus
- Islamic electrical engineering

 

[Quintessence]

Only if you bend the definition of "science". How are you defining "science"?

I'm not going to play that game. The very notion that there's a "the" definition of anything - setting aside that this fundamentally misunderstands how language works - is precisely the sort of thing that plays into ethnocentrism and cultural biases. This is a problem that was discussed during the seminar, IIRC. Honestly, as I'm fairly new to the concept myself I'd do a poorer job recanting the points than if you find the opportunity to go to such a seminar yourself. Which you'll have, if DEI initiatives continue to be improved upon.

I was specifically referring to STEM topics. Can you give an example from physics or chemistry or math that would be at all dependent on a cultural perspective?

No, I cannot. Well, I could, but that would be speaking outside of my expertise and I don't like doing that. I don't know why the example I gave relating to the philosophy of science isn't good enough for you - or why biology isn't good enough for you - but since they are not you will have to ask someone else.

 

[icehorse]

No, it's actually closer to what I said.

closer to what specifically?

You just don't want to see it because you'd rather see your biases, which you made very clear with this:

A few things:

- "you" might find it an interesting exercise to constrain yourself from talking about me in one of the discussions
- "biases" - so much to unpack here. So many things you might mean here. So many questions I could ask. So, can we dig in a little bit on what you mean by "biases" in this context.
- what you're on about here was me being a bit satirical. I think humor is a good thing

 

[icehorse]

I'm not going to play that game. The very notion that there's a "the" definition of anything - setting aside that this fundamentally misunderstands how language works - is precisely the sort of thing that plays into ethnocentrism and cultural biases

I assure you, I wasn't "playing a game" or trying to trick you. I'm working from the premise that part of our reason for being on RF is to learn about each other? There are many definitions for the word "science", correct? I genuinely want to understand you better. If me asking you to define a key term, is ethnocentric or flawed in some other way, then what do you recommend instead? How do you recommend we have a meaningful conversation if we cannot ask each other questions?

Just as an example, one of the seminars the department hosted as part of its DEI initiatives brought an indigenous scientist to our campus to talk about how our thinking about science is impacted by culture. It was so interesting it even inspired me to create a thread here about it: Indigenous Science. The fact is, diversity brings novel approaches to academia and our fields of study that enriches them and pushes them into new directions. It is very much not just about "skin color" and absolutely introduces opposing ideas.

Can you name of few of the opposing ideas and explain what these ideas are opposed to?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

closer to what specifically?

I'm nit repeating myself. Go back and reread it.

- "you" might find it an interesting exercise to constrain yourself from talking about me in one of the discussions

Yeah, no. That's not how it works. You make some very outlandish claims and I'm going to comment on them.

- "biases" - so much to unpack here. So many things you might mean here. So many questions I could ask. So, can we dig in a little bit on what you mean by "biases" in this context.

Only to pseudo-intellectuals who think it's hip to question the definition of words with a definition accepted and recognizee throughout the Anglosphere

- what you're on about here was me being a bit satirical. I think humor is a good thing

There was no indication that of that. To the point I doubt it and think you was serious. Your posting history gives me no reason to assume you were using humor, especially with nothing to indicate that.

 

[icehorse]

That is utterly wrong. DEI emphasizes giving voice to the experiences of people from different walks of life, not their "skin color". Widening societal discourse by allowing marginalized folks a voice is not "dogma".

In some areas of study, that's fine, truly.

But I'm talking about STEM-ish topics. Do you think what you said above relates to STEM topics?

 

[icehorse]

Only to pseudo-intellectuals who think it's hip to question the definition of words with a definition accepted and recognizee throughout the Anglosphere

Ahhh! You're a pseudi-intellectual, that helps me connect some dots, thanks.

But seriously, I think that for most complex topics, understanding the context is crucial. To rephrase from my earlier post, I want to understand what you mean by bias IN THIS CONTEXT.