DEI driven community college curriculum, argh!

[icehorse]

There is nothing in this guidance to suggest any of the ridiculous nonsense in your post.

All I can think is that you didn't actually read it?

 

[icehorse]

Closet racism. The Trumpy sort of thing.

Ah right! I see it clearly now, things are actually very simple: either you swallow woke dogma or you're a racist! doh!

 

[exchemist]

Ah right! I see it clearly now, things are actually very simple: either you swallow woke dogma or you're a racist! doh!

There's a lot of it about in the US, which is one reason why these DEI programmes have been devised, of course. The disproportionate reaction they generate in some people seems suggestive, to say the least.

 

[exchemist]

All I can think is that you didn't actually read it?

I read it.

Where do you see anything about culturally sensitive Ohms' Law? Or have you made that up?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Some people have no problem with acknowledging the violence, racism, arrogance and hypocrisy that colonialism often involved, but just find that binary framing reductive and distorting if not outright patronising and counterproductive, especially in populist discourse where nuance is usually lacking.

“It was the late doyen of African historians, J. F. Ade Ajayi, who, in 1969, inaugurated a debate on this matter by arguing that colonialism was a mere ‘episode’ in African history and experience, and that the continuing talk of it having enacted an epochal break is not justified by the evidence. He argued that African history is to be noted more for its continuities than any discontinuities attributable to colonialism…

Given how zealous our decolonisers are when it comes to freeing the colonised from the continuing stranglehold of colonial hangovers, there is some irony in the fact that they may be guilty of condescension towards the colonised, refusing to take seriously the choices that some colonised make when exercising their subjectivity and the autonomy that comes with it. Beyond the woolly but ultimately empty rhetoric, I do not see a clear way charted by the decolonising discourse out of this predicament… our decolonisers are convinced that there is no distinction between colonialism and modernity, it is no surprise that their project is defined by negativity…

The same people who hector us to decolonise are the ones who absolutise modern European colonialism and turn it into the single pole for plotting African phenomena, no matter how removed in time those phenomena are from the colonial period.”

Against Decolonisation: Taking African agency seriously -
Olúfẹ́mi Táíwò

The above excerpt strikes me as a tad too dichotomous, as if a continuity of pre-colonial African history couldn't also be affected by events and policies enacted by colonial powers during their rule over the region.

An example of this is how France still maintains a robust presence in African affairs and has exploited the natural resources of African countries for decades, which doesn't preclude the existence of African domestic issues that predate France's interventionism, although there are strong arguments that French involvement has exacerbated many of those issues.

Since people are largely shaped by the educational, religious, geographical, socioeconomic, and political circumstances of their societies—all of which are tangible, material conditions that colonialism can affect and has affected—I think it is impossible to accurately put a society's actions into perspective without analyzing this backdrop. There's no magical cut-off point after which the primary and secondary effects of colonialism on a society completely disappear, especially when they bleed into other aspects that in turn have their own effects, such as the proliferation of anti-contraceptive beliefs in some countries following Christian missionary work whose effects have lingered far past the official "end date" of the peak of missionary work in Africa.

This is not to say that Africans have no agency or that human nature won't consistently lead to the same results no matter where one looks in the world, and Africa is no exception. It's just that the way people exercise their agency is still informed and influenced by numerous factors that are inevitably shaped whether partially or fully by past and current circumstances. It's no coincidence that many former French and British colonies still speak French and English respectively, for example, despite having agency to change their official languages to completely exclude both (which would be impractical and extremely unrealistic, despite being theoretically possible).

Pre (Western) colonial societies were still overwhelmingly oppressive, imperialistic, expansionist or at least violently exploitative as has been the case since the emergence of the ancient agricultural civilisations.

Colonisation was only possible due to the continued support of large numbers of indigenous or colonised people acting under their own agency for their own perceived gain. Many of these people were those oppressed under previous systems be they subjugated tribes, lower castes, freed slaves, etc. Many people were both oppressors and oppressed at the same time. For many people it made little to no difference who ruled them.

This phase of European Colonialism was a 500+ year period involving all kinds of groups, individuals and forces in massively different situations where colonials oppressed indigenous groups, indigenous oppressed colonials, indigenous oppressed indigenous, colonials oppressed colonials, folk traded and cooperated, cultures were destroyed, changed syncretised or were adopted and all in the context of massive changes in technology and knowledge that would have fundamentally changed traditional ways of life regardless.

Overall the process was exploitative, frequently oppressive, and occasionally genocidal but, then again, so was history before that (and often after that too).

In other words, humans are a domineering and violent species, and nothing can save us from ourselves. (I would agree. )

 

[icehorse]

One of the things that came up in our discussion is that Western science very much hinges itself on numbers and data that are externally written down somewhere. This is undeniably important, but it means Western science is going to tend to overlook "hidden" numbers and data from indigenous traditions whose data is passed down through oral traditions or culture. As a Druid, I knew exactly what the speaker was talking about - for the vast majority of human history, we were pre-alphabetic and pre-lingual. Knowledge - still taken from real world experiences and observations of our environment (aka, a core of Western science) - was transmitted orally, encoded in folk tales, and so on. That's indigenous science, but it is often overlooked and ignored because the way it is passed on looks different. But their knowledge came from generations of living on the land, observing the land, and knowing the land... just not writing it down with numbers and figures.

It seems to me we're very closely aligned here. I'm terribly concerned about the state of our planet, and I think that ideas like "the 7th generation" and learning from indigenous people are crucial.

I can also see how what you've described could be categorized as a scientific approach. And, I can imagine how a course that covers what you're talking about could be a good addition to a STEM student's curriculum.

As I'm imagining all of this, I'm also imagining that this ought to be done in a unifying way, not a divisive way.

One of my problems with the DEI document is that it seems to go out of it's way to be divisive. To create and reinforce competing and adversarial identity groups. The planet is on fire, we don't have time for divisiveness

 

[icehorse]

I read it.

Where do you see anything about culturally sensitive Ohms' Law? Or have you made that up?

Oh come on, you can't spot a little satire? And you can't acknowledge that satire is based on what's actually happening?

The satirical examples I gave would be entirely consistent with the document. Further, a teacher could be admonished for failing to teach in this way.

Remember the context here. This document was created with a lot of care and intention. If we're to be honest, we need to take the perspective that the authors meant exactly what they said. The document outlines a universal, all-encompassing approach to teaching all topics.

 

[Yerda]

Oh come on, you can't spot a little satire? And you can't acknowledge that satire is based on what's actually happening?

The satirical examples I gave would be entirely consistent with the document. Further, a teacher could be admonished for failing to teach in this way.

Remember the context here. This document was created with a lot of care and intention. If we're to be honest, we need to take the perspective that the authors meant exactly what they said. The document outlines a universal, all-encompassing approach to teaching all topics.

Maybe you've misinterpreted what you've read?

You're pretty zealous in the shooting at things you find unreasonable. Maybe you're overshooting a wee bit here?

 

[icehorse]

Maybe you've misinterpreted what you've read?

You're pretty zealous in the shooting at things you find unreasonable. Maybe you're overshooting a wee bit here?

This document is entirely consistent with the most radical end of the woke spectrum of thought.

We're foolish to not take the authors at their word. Who are you to say that a parsimonious reading of the document is not correct?

 

[Yerda]

This document is entirely consistent with the most radical end of the woke spectrum of thought.

We're foolish to not take the authors at their word. Who are you to say that a parsimonious reading of the document is not correct?

I think this answers my question.

 

[Orbit]

Sure. But a book about STEM topics is not a STEM topic. E.g., that book will do nothing (or very little), to prepare a student to do actual chemistry or math or physics or engineering...

I disagree. I think it will do something very important in teaching STEM practitioners about the role of epistemology in research, and how your epistemology can affect how you set up an experiment which will partially determine the results you get.

In a real-world STEM example of this, my husband's company often works with an Indian sub-contractor for software development. My husband has noticed that sometimes the Indian developers have a distinctive way of approaching a programming problem that is a result of how they are taught to think about problems in their culture. It differs from the way a native-born American developer would approach the problem. Cultural assumptions infect our epistemology, which affects our scientific practice, which affects scientific outcomes and the literature published in science.

 

[icehorse]

I disagree. I think it will do something very important in teaching STEM practitioners about the role of epistemology in research, and how your epistemology can affect how you set up an experiment which will partially determine the results you get.

In a real-world STEM example of this, my husband's company often works with an Indian sub-contractor for software development. My husband has noticed that sometimes the Indian developers have a distinctive way of approaching a programming problem that is a result of how they are taught to think about problems in their culture. It differs from the way a native-born American developer would approach the problem. Cultural assumptions infect our epistemology, which affects our scientific practice, which affects scientific outcomes and the literature published in science.

I can see some value in that. I've worked with programmers from many cultures, and I've seen how they bring different thought processes to problems.

But again, my concern with the document is its claims of universality. We're instructed to also consider religion, socioeconomics, gender, disabilities, and so on. All of this takes time, and seems at best to be an exercise in diminishing returns. As a teacher of STEM topics, I can tell you that we're ALWAYS tasked with "covering" more material than we can adequately cover. All of this - while perhaps marginally useful - just makes our task more difficult.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm wondering how soon it will be before male and female couplings will be targeted.

In both technical & sexual contexts, eh.
SCOTUS might seek to regulate the latter...you
know...to prevent actions that offend their God.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sure. But a book about STEM topics is not a STEM topic. E.g., that book will do nothing (or very little), to prepare a student to do actual chemistry or math or physics or engineering...

"meta-STEM"?

 

[icehorse]

In both technical & sexual contexts, eh.
SCOTUS might seek to regulate the latter...you
know...to prevent actions that offend their God.

so much for male-to-male and female-to-female adapters and fittings. Dang, they can be soooo useful!

 

[Revoltingest]

so much for male-to-male and female-to-female adapters and fittings. Dang, they can be soooo useful!

Bi-sexual (ie, genderless) connectors pose great danger,
eg, electrical connections that could back-feed.

Perhaps we should change "male" & "female"
to "outie" & "innie"? But then the Umbilical
Lives Matter crowd will take offense.

This is fun!

 

[icehorse]

Bi-sexual (ie, genderless) connectors pose great danger,
eg, electrical connections that could back-feed.

Perhaps we should change "male" & "female"
to "outie" & "innie"? But then the Umbilical
Lives Matter crowd will take offense.

This is fun!

I suppose it's only a matter of time before one of my fittings will identify as the other sex, and when I refuse to use it the way it feels it should be used, I'll get canceled.

 

[Revoltingest]

I suppose it's only a matter of time before one of my fittings will identify as the other sex, and when I refuse to use it the way it feels it should be used, I'll get canceled.

I wonder if I can make an electrical "suicide cable"
by giving hormone treatment to one end?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The problem with the woke mindset and DEI is that despite its flowery language, it is extremely divisive in practice, as it sets racial, gender, and class differences as the basis of all interactions, and the basis of all decision-making. The result is a society that is hyper-aware of collective differences, numb to individual uniqueness, and is constantly in the mode of assessing peers on the prescribed attributes. Not only that, but it disincentivizes higher achievement, which I predict is just a lingering catastrophe. I really have nothing good to say about it. The woke mind ransacks the West's cultural treasures, immolates them like effigies as a sacrifice for their pseudo-gods, and spreads the ashes to the wind.

All that crap has already been there. It just makes bigots mad because it calls out their crap. The nly divisive thing abiut comes from thise who cannit stand to hear there are problems with bigotry throughout society.
Kind of like how certain people (dumb, racist whites) complain Obama stirred up racial tensions in America where they previously where ok and smooth sailing. No, they just don't lioe black people getting attention, so much and to the point they deny Obama is black.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

One of my problems with the DEI document is that it seems to go out of it's way to be divisive. To create and reinforce competing and adversarial identity groups.

I concur with your second sentence while being far from convinced that the first is accurate and fair. Could you give me a couple of examples of adversarial identity groups being created and reinforced with the intent to be divisive?