Demi gender

[Evangelicalhumanist]

These arguments keep implying that I care. Or that I should care. But I don't. Unless you're my significant other, or a close friend, I don't care if you're gay or strait or bi or trans or by what ratio. Why would I? Why would anyone presume I would or should? I have no need to know. And I have plenty of my own issues to think about. If I see a stranger in a men's room wearing a dress all I'm going to think is "well that's interesting". And that's it. A few seconds later it's forgotten.

I think all these sexual and gender declarations are about something else. I think they are about people trying to be recognized in a world that increasingly ignores them. And I think the solution is that they need more personal real life friends. People around them that do recognize and appreciate them for who they are. Pestering strangers for that recognition is just going to annoy them. And understandably so.

It's more than that, and I think you should know it. There are very simple issues like who one's spouse is, and most often in life, it's kinda hard to keep that a secret. Think Pete Buttigieg and his husband Chasten. Even when you are just seeing somebody, there are moments when a hug, a kiss, holding hands in public are perfectly natural -- and if you're straight nobody even notices, but if you're gay, too often there's a gasp from people around you.

As to washrooms, well, sometimes when you gotta go, you gotta go. I was at the opera a few months ago (Beethoven's Fidelio) and during intermission, while standing in front of the porcelain receptacle, a woman came out of one of the men's stalls. One guesses that the line to the ladies was just too long for her to wait (this is a problem in theatres of every kind) so she did what she had to. Even though I was standing there holding onto my manhood, I wasn't in the least phased by it.

 

[Kathryn]

I am not defined by who I sleep with.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I am not defined by who I sleep with.

But I hope you at least enjoy it!

 

[Kathryn]

But I hope you at least enjoy it!

Yes, but why be defined by it? I am so much more than that.

 

[icehorse]

Just because you don't understand them doesn't mean they need abandoned.

I anxiously await solid, useful definitions...

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, but why be defined by it? I am so much more than that.

As are we all.

However, picture the Christian family in which, one evening a son comes home and at the dinner table tells his family that he has found someone, someone he loves and wants accepted by the family -- and that someone is another guy. Many, many families have thrown their children out of the house for such admissions. Many people have completely ostracized their "friends" for such admissions. And yet, while not defining himself by who he has fallen in love with, this son just wants to be accepted for who he is, and have his love interest accepted as well.

Sure, he may be a gifted musician, an artist, a talented physicist, or the best plumber, gardener, crane operator or hairdresser in town, along with all sorts of other fine attributes. But this one will define him -- not his own definition, but the definitions made by others unable to accept this simple truth. And having been abandoned by family and friends, he finds himself moving to the big city and living in the "gay ghetto" because we've all got to fit in somewhere.

I'd like you to trust me on this -- because I've seen it far to often, up to and including suicide, and I know.

 

[Kathryn]

As are we all.

However, picture the Christian family in which, one evening a son comes home and at the dinner table tells his family that he has found someone, someone he loves and wants accepted by the family -- and that someone is another guy. Many, many families have thrown their children out of the house for such admissions. Many people have completely ostracized their "friends" for such admissions. And yet, while not defining himself by who he has fallen in love with, this son just wants to be accepted for who he is, and have his love interest accepted as well.

Sure, he may be a gifted musician, an artist, a talented physicist, or the best plumber, gardener, crane operator or hairdresser in town, along with all sorts of other fine attributes. But this one will define him -- not his own definition, but the definitions made by others unable to accept this simple truth. And having been abandoned by family and friends, he finds himself moving to the big city and living in the "gay ghetto" because we've all got to fit in somewhere.

I'd like you to trust me on this -- because I've seen it far to often, up to and including suicide, and I know.

I do trust you but I also would never ostracize a child due to this, so please return the favor. As you know, I am a Christian. I also don't know any other Christians who would ostracize their kids for this. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not as common place as you seem to think it is.

 

[JustGeorge]

I do trust you but I also would never ostracize a child due to this, so please return the favor. As you know, I am a Christian. I also don't know any other Christians who would ostracize their kids for this. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, I'm just saying it's not as common place as you seem to think it is.

I'm not so sure its religious, though its sometimes claimed to be.

I know my oldest son doesn't dare come out to his father. His father isn't religious at all.

 

[PureX]

It's more than that, and I think you should know it. There are very simple issues like who one's spouse is, and most often in life, it's kinda hard to keep that a secret. Think Pete Buttigieg and his husband Chasten. Even when you are just seeing somebody, there are moments when a hug, a kiss, holding hands in public are perfectly natural -- and if you're straight nobody even notices, but if you're gay, too often there's a gasp from people around you.

As to washrooms, well, sometimes when you gotta go, you gotta go. I was at the opera a few months ago (Beethoven's Fidelio) and during intermission, while standing in front of the porcelain receptacle, a woman came out of one of the men's stalls. One guesses that the line to the ladies was just too long for her to wait (this is a problem in theatres of every kind) so she did what she had to. Even though I was standing there holding onto my manhood, I wasn't in the least phased by it.

I don’t see how insisting that I be made aware of someone’s sexual and gender preferences, and insisting that I must accommodate them in some special way will mitigate these unfortunate incidents. Seems to me that my non-concern ought to be the goal, here. So I’m already way ahead of the curve. I’m not throwing any kids out of the house for being … anything. Nor banning gay marriage, or even bothered by who uses what restroom.

 

[sun rise]

a woman came out of one of the men's stalls

I know many if not all women will remark that stall counts are designed by men who do not take the differences between male and female bodies into account when deciding how many stalls are needed. So I've seen women use men's rooms when the line was too long in front of the ladies.

I know some women who don't care and some that care. In a volunteer job that involved cleaning bathrooms, I've had women who said "stay" when I was cleaning the ladies room and some that said "go" or words to that effect.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don’t see how insisting that I be made aware of someone’s sexual and gender preferences, and insisting that I must accommodate them in some special way will mitigate these unfortunate incidents. Seems to me that my non-concern ought to be the goal, here. So I’m already way ahead of the curve. I’m not throwing any kids out of the house for being … anything. Nor banning gay marriage, or even bothered by who uses what restroom.

Good, wonderful that you are doing none of those things. I'm just trying to point out to you that they happen -- and there is a political party that has a large contingent determined on making sure that they continue to happen.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I anxiously await solid, useful definitions...

As per your norm they have been provided and you dismissed it.

 

[icehorse]

As per your norm they have been provided and you dismissed it.

Only weak or circular definitions have been provided.

 

[PureX]

Good, wonderful that you are doing none of those things. I'm just trying to point out to you that they happen -- and there is a political party that has a large contingent determined on making sure that they continue to happen.

I know these things happen. These and a great many others that I would object to on the basis of cruelty. And I do not support fascist politics of any kind for that reason.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Only weak or circular definitions have been provided.

You dismiss dictionary definitions.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I anxiously await solid, useful definitions...

And I await objective and logical evidence of what is useful and solid.

 

[icehorse]

You dismiss dictionary definitions.

i dismiss bad definitions and look for logical, useful ones. If a dictionary provides a circular definition, I'd say that lends credence to my claim that the word is ill-defined.

 

[Audie]

i dismiss bad definitions and look for logical, useful ones. If a dictionary provides a circular definition, I'd say that lends credence to my claim that the word is ill-defined.

And definitions chosen to promote
equivocation.

 

[Audie]

And I await objective and logical evidence of what is useful and solid.

I await the time people stop being tiresome.

 

[sun rise]

The terms "gender" and "gender identity" should be abandoned, they clarify nothing, and help not at all.

So gender discrimination against women is meaningless to you

Gender refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with each other. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time.
...
Gender interacts with but is different from sex, which refers to the different biological and physiological characteristics of females, males and intersex persons, such as chromosomes, hormones and reproductive organs. Gender and sex are related to but different from gender identity. Gender identity refers to a person’s deeply felt, internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond to the person’s physiology or designated sex at birth.
...
Gender influences people’s experience of and access to healthcare. The way that health services are organized and provided can either limit or enable a person’s access to healthcare information, support and services, and the outcome of those encounters. Health services should be affordable, accessible and acceptable to all, and they should be provided with quality, equity and dignity.

Gender inequality and discrimination faced by women and girls puts their health and well-being at risk. Women and girls often face greater barriers than men and boys to accessing health information and services. These barriers include restrictions on mobility; lack of access to decision-making power; lower literacy rates; discriminatory attitudes of communities and healthcare providers; and lack of training and awareness amongst healthcare providers and health systems of the specific health needs and challenges of women and girls. Gender and health