Democracy going down

[Terrywoodenpic]

I suppose, although a lot of people just go along with the crowd, jump on the bandwagon, or whatever side they think is winning.

Remember the ferryman from The Outlaw Josey Wales? He would either sing "Dixie" or "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" depending on the allegiance of whoever was approaching. Taking the wrong political stance could not only hurt his business, it could endanger his life.


So, a lot of people are simply wishy-washy fence-sitters. Kind of a pity, actually, as it tends to have a deleterious effect on democratic systems.

The same is true about many issues.
Like people's position on abortion and attending church. And their attitude to education and even creationism.
People tend to pick up the social opinion around them.
Socially both parties are close to identical, so the trend is heavily reinforced.

This has Become less the case in the old world in recent years. But it is still very visible in the USA which seems far more social conformist.

 

[Secret Chief]

If they were known to life about the campaign, has anybody protested against the leave? is the public holding anybody accountable for making false promises?

Huh, how long have you got? It's ongoing and about to get worse at the end of the transition period (Dec 31). That's why I posted a thread about riots. There's a lot of ****** off people, a government full of blatant liars and bull******** and we're looking at seriously bad consequences going into 2021.

 

[Yerda]

I assume you mean FPTP, but it also means governments with less than 50% can run rough shot over the whole population.

I did and yes, agreed.

We have a more proportional system in the Scottish parliamentary elections and it works fairly well. Smaller parties get a better chance because of the list system and the overall composition of the chamber is closer to the proportion of allocated votes than we see in Westminster.

 

[Secret Chief]

Collectively you get what you deserve.

You do. Which is probably why about one third of the UK population want about another third of the population to bugger off somewhere else.

 

[Secret Chief]

The United States is not a democracy. It is a Democratic Republic. That is why you can have a majority vote and still lose. The system was set up to work that way from the founding of the country.

The same can (and has happened twice) in the UK too.

 

[PureX]

If that's so, then the problem is disinterest in governance.
That means government by oligarchy the default.
So your complaint should be about voters, not the default option.

Not yours, apparently.

Do you vote or not?
Why?

Yes I vote. Because they need to know that we are paying attention. Unfortunately, the system is so rigged that they can ignore the voters, almost entirely, anyway.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes I vote. Because they need to know that we are paying attention. Unfortunately, the system is so rigged that they can ignore the voters, almost entirely, anyway.

That's contradictory, ie, they ignore you, but
you want them to know you pay attention.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

That's contradictory, ie, they ignore you, but
you want them to know you pay attention.

If they know you are there, they put sprinkles on the Ice cream.
Bu it is still junk, fat, water and flavourings. and will kill you over time.
The best stuff is exclusively for their own table.

 

[Revoltingest]

If they know you are there, they put sprinkles on the Ice cream.
Bu it is still junk, fat, water and flavourings. and will kill you over time.
The best stuff is exclusively for their own table.

Liberals...
They tell me it's important to vote...an important civic duty.
They tell me that it's useless because the oligarchy selects & controls the winners.
Then they fume & fulminate at me for voting for the wrong candidate.
Because it makes such a huge difference....a life & death matter.
4 years later....
It begins again.

 

[PureX]

That's contradictory, ie, they ignore you, but
you want them to know you pay attention.

Why do you think that's contradictory?

The reason they can ignore us is that they know we have very little choice. Choosing between one corporate whore and another corporate whore isn't much of a choice. Yet if we stop voting all together, they don't even have to PRETEND to care what we think, to beat the other corporate whore they're running against. So I keep voting, even though a corporate whore will win, regardless, and will do whatever his/her corporate masters tell them.

 

[Revoltingest]

Why do you think that's contradictory?

Expressing yourself to those you believe ignore you.

 

[PureX]

Expressing yourself to those you believe ignore you.

It may be an impotent gesture, but it's not contradictory.

And it wouldn't be an impotent gesture if enough of us would unite and vote together, with a singular purpose.

 

[metis]

Where is this taking us?
What are the causes?

Thoughts....

Think this election is so terribly important that if Trump & Co were to win by hook or crook, democracy here would be in deep jeopardy. We're playing with fire here, and we need to remember that Trump has repeatedly praised what he calls "strong leaders", such as Putin, Un, Saddam Hussein, and several other tyrants.

IOW, this may be the most significant election in American history because the stakes are so high.

 

[Revoltingest]

Think this election is so terribly important that if Trump & Co were to win by hook or crook, democracy here would be in deep jeopardy. We're playing with fire here, and we need to remember that Trump has repeatedly praised what he calls "strong leaders", such as Putin, Un, Saddam Hussein, and several other tyrants.

IOW, this may be the most significant election in American history because the stakes are so high.

Post #72 is very much at odds with this claim.
Fascinating. People on the same side can
have such polar opposite perspectives, eh.

 

[Secret Chief]

this may be the most significant election in American history because the stakes are so high.

I've read this same sentiment in various places. It's a statement of the obvious really. Given what the man is like, if he got a second term, it would make his first term look like a socialist heaven.