Democratic mega-win - drug price negotiation results

[The Hammer]

I'm glad we don't. Or, ya know, I wouldn't have lived a full day after I was born.

Me either.

 

[Shaul]

This bad news. It means there will be upcoming shortages, squelching of new products coming to market and negatively affect patients not getting needed medicine. To put it succinctly, price fixing doesn't work. The market will do what the market should. Leave it alone.

 

[metis]

To put it succinctly, price fixing doesn't work. The market will do what the market should. Leave it alone.

So, to hell for the people who can't pay for it, right?

 

[Shaul]

So, to hell for the people who can't pay for it, right?

There is nothing in my post that said nor implied that whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

 

[metis]

There is nothing in my post that said nor implied that whatsoever. Quite the opposite.

So, how what do you propose helping those in need with meds they can't afford?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This bad news. It means there will be upcoming shortages, squelching of new products coming to market and negatively affect patients not getting needed medicine. To put it succinctly, price fixing doesn't work. The market will do what the market should. Leave it alone.

Except we can see there is no invisibile hand here (not that it actually exists anyways) and it is corporate greed artificially inflating prices to unreasonable highs.

 

[Regiomontanus]

This bad news. It means there will be upcoming shortages, squelching of new products coming to market and negatively affect patients not getting needed medicine. To put it succinctly, price fixing doesn't work. The market will do what the market should. Leave it alone.

So, let big pharma charge whatever the heck they want? Really?

 

[Shaul]

Except we can see there is no invisibile hand here (not that it actually exists anyways) and it is corporate greed artificially inflating prices to unreasonable highs.

The invisible hand is there. The Market can and does deal with putative "greedy" suppliers. But only if the Market is not inferred with. The better solution than price fixing, which never works, is to eliminate restrictions on competition and crony capitalism.

 

[sun rise]

Fox actually posted that it was coming 2 years ago.

"In 2024, the government will start negotiating what it will pay for 10 drugs, with the new prices taking effect in 2026. They will be chosen from among some of the 50 medicines responsible for the highest Medicare spending that have no cheaper generic or biosimilar alternatives."

The first group of medicines would include those sold mostly in pharmacies to treat diseases such as diabetes, cancer and arthritis.

The government has said it will negotiate prices on 15 drugs for 2028 and 20 for the year 2029, expanding the pool to include those administered in hospitals and by doctors, such as infusions and injectables"

How Inflation Reduction Act could affect Medicare prices | Fox News

$430 billion Inflation Reduction Act will allow the government to cap Medicare costs

www.foxnews.com

Right but the deal itself has not been reported yet.

 

[sun rise]

The invisible hand is there. The Market can and does deal with putative "greedy" suppliers. But only if the Market is not inferred with. The better solution than price fixing, which never works, is to eliminate restrictions on competition and crony capitalism.

Drugs are for years a monopoly and no market operates during that time frame. And afterwards big pharma does all it can to keep the monopoly. Now if you advocate for a very short patent on new drugs so there is a real market with many competitors after a short time, that would be a good argument. But right now it's just wishful thinking with no real market.

And, by the way, that has extended to older drugs where there is perhaps one or maybe two generic manufacturers. We've seen that in the news as well.

 

[Pogo]

Fox actually posted that it was coming 2 years ago.

"In 2024, the government will start negotiating what it will pay for 10 drugs, with the new prices taking effect in 2026. They will be chosen from among some of the 50 medicines responsible for the highest Medicare spending that have no cheaper generic or biosimilar alternatives."

The first group of medicines would include those sold mostly in pharmacies to treat diseases such as diabetes, cancer and arthritis.

The government has said it will negotiate prices on 15 drugs for 2028 and 20 for the year 2029, expanding the pool to include those administered in hospitals and by doctors, such as infusions and injectables"

How Inflation Reduction Act could affect Medicare prices | Fox News

$430 billion Inflation Reduction Act will allow the government to cap Medicare costs

www.foxnews.com

And since then they have been harping on how the Inflation Reductiion Act was a Democratic boondoggle.

 

[Shaul]

Drugs are for years a monopoly and no market operates during that time frame. And afterwards big pharma does all it can to keep the monopoly. Now if you advocate for a very short patent on new drugs so there is a real market with many competitors after a short time, that would be a good argument. But right now it's just wishful thinking with no real market.

And, by the way, that has extended to older drugs where there is perhaps one or maybe two generic manufacturers. We've seen that in the news as well.

The Free Market has remedies for monopolies. Always and in various ways. A drub that holds such a supposed monopoly will invite others to bring to the market that eliminates that supposed monopoly sooner or later. Patent excesses that truly frustrate the Free Market should be addressed through patent law reform, not through price fixing. The problems you bring up are creatures of government intervention in the Free Market. The solution is less government interference, not more.

 

[sun rise]

This bad news. It means there will be upcoming shortages, squelching of new products coming to market and negatively affect patients not getting needed medicine. To put it succinctly, price fixing doesn't work. The market will do what the market should. Leave it alone.

That's your assumption. Pharma and research indicates that the companies still make money, that the impact on new drugs is very small and there won't be shortages when companies make a decent profit.

It's not price fixing. Medicare is acting just like insurance companies and the veterans administration does and negotiates prices. So you appear to want to eliminate all price negotiations whatsoever.

And you don't have a answer to what you want - real competition - which to me is reasonable but not possible. Writing about a "market" when there's a monopoly is an error.

Some background that actually shows the impact is modest. The PCMA statement is self serving because there are people without drug coverage but it illustrates that the deal is not "Price fixing" but Medicare acting like insurance companies and the veterans coverage.

But the list price is not a fair way to account for savings. Medicare insurance plans already pay steep discounts to the list price of medications because of rebates negotiated between drug manufacturers and pharmacy benefit managers, the so-called middlemen who negotiate rebates with pharmaceutical companies on behalf of health insurers.​

...​

PCMA, a trade group representing the pharmacy benefit managers, was quick to note its own analysis found its members secured deeper discounts than the administration on six of the 10 drugs selected.​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

This bad news. It means there will be upcoming shortages, squelching of new products coming to market and negatively affect patients not getting needed medicine. To put it succinctly, price fixing doesn't work. The market will do what the market should. Leave it alone.

It looks to me like you're 66 years old, and I suspect you live in the States. Out of curiosity: Do you get Medicare or some equivalent?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

FAke news! Fake news!

Okay, kidding of course. And this may be just the start. This will save both individuals and the Medicare system billons if not trillions of dollars. For far too long the US has paid far too much when it comes to prescription drugs. This is the sort of thing that should get everyone's attention since it keeps the big pharmaceutical companies from making obscene profits from the woes of others.

Yes, we need research and development of other drugs, but it appears that the pharmaceutical companies use that excuse to line their pockets. Government oversight is heavily needed when it comes to medications. Time and time again it has been shown that the pharmaceutical companies cannot police themselves.

The US has indeed paid far too much, because Big Pharma lines the pockets of politicians who support them -- mostly, of course, Republican.

And of course we're all aware of the claim that "research costs so much, we have to make up those costs in high prices of existing drugs." But that is forgetting what really drives capitalism -- and it's partner research and innovation: new products to sell. Don't forget that when pharmaceutical companies first started developing new drugs, they did so for the very simple reason that they knew that if they found another good pain killer, or treatments for the many ailments that plague us, there would be a market for them. And that will not change, and because it won't change, the research will continue.

Remember, for example, Insulin was developed in Canada, and until Biden got the price lowered, many Americans were turning to Canada to buy their Insulin because Canada's drug companies weren't charging huge amounts for it. And yet, they still happily engage in research.

 

[Pogo]

This bad news. It means there will be upcoming shortages, squelching of new products coming to market and negatively affect patients not getting needed medicine. To put it succinctly, price fixing doesn't work. The market will do what the market should. Leave it alone.

Oh don't worry so much, we are still paying more than the Europeans for the same drugs.
Maybe we ought to take some of the savings and put it into new drug discovery instead of major pharma just finding slight variations so they can each have their patent-able version?

 

[Pogo]

So, how what do you propose helping those in need with meds they can't afford?

We could raise taxes so that we can pay for the drugs that Medicare already has agreed to pay for?

 

[Pogo]

The Free Market has remedies for monopolies. Always and in various ways. A drub that holds such a supposed monopoly will invite others to bring to the market that eliminates that supposed monopoly sooner or later. Patent excesses that truly frustrate the Free Market should be addressed through patent law reform, not through price fixing. The problems you bring up are creatures of government intervention in the Free Market. The solution is less government interference, not more.

Oh please, show us an example of this free market and how it is good for all rather than exceedingly good for a few. Or is the general welfare something of no value?

 

[Kathryn]

My dad was prescribed Eliquis but he couldn't afford it. Thankfully there was a "fake" Eliquis which he could afford, and he did so. He still died but he had missed several doses that week.

 

[Pogo]

It looks to me like you're 66 years old, and I suspect you live in the States. Out of curiosity: Do you get Medicare or some equivalent?

Well either that or he is one of the suckers who actually does have to pay the free market price. or at least during the donut hole.