Democrats only: Are there lessons to be learned for team Harris?

[BrightShadow]

Action speaks louder than words!

U R learning!
Good!

 

[PureX]

To be fair to you - I didn't read your opinion (rant really).
You need more time to heal.

This is an example of how bad it will get.

This kind of willful arrogance and ignorance is now feeling very empowered. And those who live in it think they are our superiors.

 

[Kathryn]

Everyone thinks their ideas are best. The reality seems to be that not one idea is "better" than the other. At the end of the day, everyone just wants everyone else to be happy and able to succeed.

 

[Stevicus]

Bernie Sanders blasts Democratic Party following Kamala Harris loss

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders issued a scathing statement on what he called the Democratic Party's "disastrous" campaign following Kamala Harris' loss.

abcnews.go.com

Sanders made some interesting comments about the election. He doesn't think the Democrats will learn any lessons from this.

"Will the big money interests and well-paid consultants who control the Democratic Party learn any real lessons from this disastrous campaign? Will they understand the pain and political alienation that tens of millions of Americans are experiencing? Do they have any ideas as to how we can take on the increasingly powerful Oligarchy which has so much economic and political power? Probably not," Sanders said.

Sanders said "very serious political discussions" are now merited about the path forward for "those of us concerned about grassroots democracy and economic justice," before ending his statement with, "Stay tuned."

The independent, who caucuses with Democrats, said it "should come as no great surprise that a Democratic Party which has abandoned working class people would find that the working class has abandoned them."

"First, it was the white working class, and now it is Latino and Black workers as well," Sanders continued in his statement. "While the Democratic leadership defends the status quo, the American people are angry and want change. And they're right."

From what I've observed, the "hard heads" in the Democratic Party simply aren't willing to accept that they made any mistakes at all. Even when people tell them. Even when Sanders tells them. They still don't believe it.

 

[BrightShadow]

....And those who live in it think they are our superiors.

And you are wrong again!
But that is cool! You have a right to be wrong but you should think twice before continuing to be a 'lefty' because soon you will be 'left' alone! People can see how damaging their ideologies are!
Many have left the 'lefties' and more to follow!

 

[anna.]

Catherine Rampell and Youyou Zhou of the Washington Post showed before the election that

voters overwhelmingly preferred Harris’s policies to Trump’s if they didn’t know which candidate proposed them.

November 8, 2024

Social media has been flooded today with stories of Trump voters who are shocked to learn that tariffs will raise consumer prices as reporters are covering that information.

heathercoxrichardson.substack.com

What Democrats need to battle, going forward: right-wing and bad actor (Russia, China) misinformation, fakes and lies, and the perceptions people build in their minds as a result of being fed a steady diet of false reality.

Today, the right-wing media—Fox News (and the entire News Corp.), Newsmax, One America News Network, the Sinclair network of radio and TV stations and newspapers, iHeart Media (formerly Clear Channel), the Bott Radio Network (Christian radio), Elon Musk’s X, the huge podcasts like Joe Rogan’s, and much more—sets the news agenda in this country. And they fed their audiences a diet of slanted and distorted information that made it possible for Trump to win.​

Why Does No One Understand the Real Reason Trump Won?

It wasn’t the economy. It wasn’t inflation, or anything else. It was how people perceive those things, which points to one overpowering answer.

newrepublic.com

 

[Augustus]

View attachment 99689

https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/link-between-media-consumption-and-public-opinion

I wonder how such stats would reflect partisan lines if the other party was in power?

This is largely beside the point though, as people don’t care about stats. If you look at the issues:

Inflation has been high for last few years making things significantly more expensive.

There have been high levels of illegal (and legal) immigration.

Lots of petty crime is not being reported or punished and there is a perception that law and order is declining (across all voter segments). Stats are hard to know on this, but along with things like more visible homelessness there is a perception things are getting worse.


People can point to a stat and say “a ha!”, but 3 of those points are broadly in line with trends over time and that is how people experience their environments.

What an economist says about inflation rate makes little difference if bread and eggs are much more expensive than they were a couple of years ago.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Do you see Trump as a man? A criminal, a liar, sexually assaults women, commits fraud as a core motivation in business? The man is insecure, and not strong in any psycholocal sense. He appears strong because some assume his bullying and insults makes a man.

And from the conservative men I have seen and heard who are prominent cvoices of the right they are immature and lack any core integrity. That's not strength in the classic, formal sense. Look at what a gentleman used to be. Modern conservatives are not that. Have you ever heard of chivalry?

There was a series from England called Hornblower about the fictional character Horatio Hornblower, an English naval officer during the Napoleonic wars. In one episode Hornblower and some of his men were prisoners of the French, and during a massive storm there was a French frigate that was in trouble on some coastal rocks. Hornblower told the French officer holding them prisoner that if let him and his men go they would rescue the men on the frigate, and he gave his word he would return. The French agreed and Hornblower and his men rescued the French sailors, but by circumstances they ended up back in the custody of a nearby English ship. The English officer said they were lucky to have escaped the French. But Hornblower said he had to go back. His men weren't obligated, but they agreed to go back as well out of duty and respect. Hornblower turned himself and his man back over to the French, The French officer was so impressed by Hornblower's integrity and honor that he agreed to let tem go, espcially in light that they saved many French sailors.

Now, to my mind this is wat a man is. Not a cheater. Not a liar. Someone who has honor and intergity. How many these days exhibit anywhere near this level of dignity? I'm not seeing it on the right given who they just elected president.

Sounds whiny.

Trump does this.

And Trump will fix this?

Where does the left say this? Look at your own side that includes Christian idealists who include many who believe women shouldn't work. Your side includes incels. Can you defend their attitdes?

The educated don't deny that men have hormones and have urges that are difficult to manage. It is a matter of character that can manage these impulses. Are you aware that Trump has 26 sexual assault accusations? There was another recently. Be careful what you are critical of when you openly support an immoral and disrespectful man.

This isn't factual.

Yet the right openly elected an ajudicated rapist. Help us make sense of your views.

I know you cannot understand having a conversation without bringing Trump into it, but what I was talking about had nothing to do with Trump. I was answering a question about how society views men.

 

[F1fan]

I know you cannot understand having a conversation without bringing Trump into it, but what I was talking about had nothing to do with Trump. I was answering a question about how society views men.

Given that a majority of men just voted for a criminal to be president it has a bearing on how society sees them. I am proud to be a man that has never voted for such an unethical and criminal person. I want society to understand me that way, that I am not like the majority whose ethics and moral consideration is not compromised.

 

[BrightShadow]

Why waste time typing when I can copy and paste my own post!

If the liberals continue to try and project that they are intellectually superior - it will cause them to lose again and again and possible everywhere around the world!

Folks in the middle tolerated those liberals long enough. It is time for them to pack up and take a hike.

It is time for the new the modern conservatives to take control of the helm!

And lets see if we can stop the wars and killings and fix the economy. You know... the important stuff that actually matters!

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Given that a majority of men just voted for a criminal to be president it has a bearing on how society sees them. I am proud to be a man that has never voted for such an unethical and criminal person. I want society to understand me that way, that I am not like the majority whose ethics and moral consideration is not compromised.

Ok ,but this self righteous attitude does not help your side one bit. The media, politicians on the left hammered Trump unfairly for years, and they lost influence. Why do you think that is? I bet you think it is because we are racists, nazies etc. So just stay with that and never have another dem elected president again. The dems failed americans and now they are blaming americans for Harris's loss and calling them names Good strategy.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Why waste time typing when I can copy and paste my own post!

If the liberals continue to try and project that they are intellectually superior - it will cause them to lose again and again and possible everywhere around the world!

Folks in the middle tolerated those liberals long enough. It is time for them to pack up and take a hike.

It is time for the new the modern conservatives to take control of the helm!

And lets see if we can stop the wars and killings and fix the economy. You know... the important stuff that actually matters!

Yes, the media and a lot of dems are blaming the electorate for not knowing how perfect a candidate Harris was. They need to look at why Harris could not attract enough voters to get elected if they want to understand what happened.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Bingo. This attitude is why men are leaving the dem party. Go on the DNC website and look at the "Who we serve" link. Nowhere are men represented in this list. Men are falling behind in education, jobs, most homeless and drug addicts are men, men are lonelier and have less friends than women, have more depression, have less opportunity for scholarships or social programs. Men don't feel wanted in society and are blamed for most everything wrong in society. Anyone that has a young son knows this. They are struggling to know who they are and why they are valuable because everything is telling them they suck and are not wanted. And instead of the dem party trying to address these issues they just double down that men are the problem.

All last week I was told by several men online that it's now "Your body, my choice."
I wonder where that fits into the above.

Men are made fun of on TV shows and in society in general in a way that women never are.

Nah.

Obama scolded black men that won't vote for Kamala. The dem party is committed to women's and minority rights and success, they have no plan for men, especially young men.

Men make up fairly significant populations of minorities as well.

Oh wait, are you just talking about white men?

Shoot, I just realized I'm not a Democrat and shouldn't be responding.
Apologies to the thread creator!

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think that Trump won when he asked "Are you better off now than you were four years ago?" The answer for thousands of Americans was "No."
It's depressing that people don't vote for ideals as much as for their own pockets but that's the reality.

Four years ago was smack in the middle of the COVID pandemic.

 

[Kathryn]

Nah.

Yah. Seen it with my own eyes. I can't believe you can't see it.

 

[Kathryn]

Four years ago was smack in the middle of the COVID pandemic.

Yes, but he asked it many many months ago. But whatever, OK, five years ago.

 

[Brickjectivity]

**** meta ****

Here is a place where putting 'Only' into the title is actually moderated by staff:

"https://www.religiousforums.com/forums/same-faith-debates.63/"​

​

Some similar areas where you may exclude responses are the following:

• 'One on One Debates' operates by invitation only and is not actually one on one if you make exceptions by inviting multiple people.
• There are some areas that are by default 'Only' such as the 'Capitalist Only' and the 'Feminist Only' areas.
• Journals are exclusive (if we still have a journals section) and can be like an 'Only' section but are not open to debate.

 

[SkepticThinker]

View attachment 99675
Others can find their own way there!

Taking someone to the train station means you're going to push them off a cliff and kill them.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

All last week I was told by several men online that it's now "Your body, my choice."
I wonder where that fits into the above.

There are bad people on both sides. There are hundreds of people online calling for the assassination of Trump, poisoning of men who voted for Trump etc. as well. Trump has never advocated for a national abortion ban or rounding up pregnant women. Some people just suck.

 

[Watchmen]

I think this article accurately represents my thoughts on the issue:

Maureen Dowd: Democrats and the case of mistaken identity politics

More people voted for Trump, even though many didn’t like him, because they liked Democratic Party less

www.irishtimes.com