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Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
"F-ed up, evil individual?"
What's your explanation for a F-ed up, evil individual who has an obsession for murdering someone... stabbing them 114 times?

Let's say that I don't know, that I don't have an explanation.
Do you feel like that justifies you in then just claiming "therefor, demons"?

I'll let you guess what such a logic structure is called.
You know what it's called, don't you?


This Psychiatrist describes the obsession as "not normal", "unnatural"... even for someone who would murder another.

I'm not saying that this is evidence, for you, or anyone on here who is skeptical.

Or for anyone else. It's not evidence of anything. Not having an explanation isn't evidence of anything other then not having an explanation.
Claiming anything else is to engage in logical fallacies.

I posted this to one who is not unaware of what is demonic.

In other words, you are counting on confirmation bias.

I already posted the evidence that is solid enough

You did not.

. If that is not accepted, I have no interest in presenting anything else to skeptics on this subject.

Off course you don't. All you are interested is sticking to your a priori religious held dogmatic beliefs.

Would the drug Kingpin walk into a police station, and say, "Hey. You see that guy you found in the alley, smiling from his neck. I did it." :grin:
Why would the demons... more intelligent than humans, do that?
Those who have eyes to see... let them see. Ezekiel 12:2
We all have eyes. And what we, on this side of the fence, see is nothing but confirmation bias and logical fallacies in an attempt to defend the undefendable.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
If there was a basis for believing in leprechauns, and the events surrounding the experience fit, I see no reason to say it can't be.


"F-ed up, evil individual?"
What's your explanation for a F-ed up, evil individual who has an obsession for murdering someone... stabbing them 114 times?

This Psychiatrist describes the obsession as "not normal", "unnatural"... even for someone who would murder another.

I'm not saying that this is evidence, for you, or anyone on here who is skeptical.
I posted this to one who is not unaware of what is demonic.
I already posted the evidence that is solid enough. If that is not accepted, I have no interest in presenting anything else to skeptics on this subject.

Would the drug Kingpin walk into a police station, and say, "Hey. You see that guy you found in the alley, smiling from his neck. I did it." :grin:
Why would the demons... more intelligent than humans, do that?
Those who have eyes to see... let them see. Ezekiel 12:2
I don't see why demons would be the explanation for this kid's behaviour. Especially when nobody has ever even been able to demonstrate that demons exist in the first place.

There are much more reasonable explanations available. People like this are made - raised in abusive and traumatic environments severely lacking in love and affection so that they fail to learn how to bond, identify and connect with other human beings in any meaningful way. Jeffrey Dahmer would be a perfect example of this. There is no need to introduce invisible demons into the equation.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
There isn’t a satisfactory one, I have to do my own balanced research based on societal observation.

So much for wanting to go with the scientific explanation then..............................

Your "balanced researched" based on "societal observation" is anecdotal and subjective / biased. By definition.
That is not how you find statistical correlations and signals. That is a good way to engage in confirmation bias instead.

This is not how one obtains accurate answers to open questions.
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
There are much more reasonable explanations available. People like this are made - raised in abusive and traumatic environments severely lacking in love and affection so that they fail to learn how to bond, identify and connect with other human beings in any meaningful way. Jeffrey Dahmer would be a perfect example of this. There is no need to introduce invisible demons into the equation.
This is classic pseudoscience nonsense.

Lionel and Joyce Dahmer, Dahmer’s birth parents, have been transparent about their son's childhood and acknowledged that they were unaware of his mental state and killer instincts when he was younger.

Despite Lionel and Joyce's divorce and subsequent separation, they maintain that they brought up Jeffrey in a typical home, and that, unlike many serial killers, he was not mistreated as a boy.

There will be tens of thousands of children that would have had a similar or worse upbringing than Dahmer but will have grown up to be normal.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
This is classic pseudoscience nonsense.

Lionel and Joyce Dahmer, Dahmer’s birth parents, have been transparent about their son's childhood and acknowledged that they were unaware of his mental state and killer instincts when he was younger.

Despite Lionel and Joyce's divorce and subsequent separation, they maintain that they brought up Jeffrey in a typical home, and that, unlike many serial killers, he was not mistreated as a boy.

There will be tens of thousands of children that would have had a similar or worse upbringing than Dahmer but will have grown up to be normal.
They lied. His parents were emotionally distant and/or largely absent from his early life, arguably during the most crucial part of childhood development. His mother suffered from severe depression and suicidal ideation and was mostly unable to provide her baby with the affection and attention he required so that baby and mother weren't able to properly bond, which negatively affected Dahmer's ability to bond with other human beings as he grew up. Also, she was on a cocktail of medication throughout her pregnancy with Jeffrey. His father was mostly absent from his son's life. When he was around, most of his attention was focused on his ailing wife. He did, however, teach his son how to bleach and clean the bones of dead animals.

Many serial killers were brought up in abusive and dysfunctional homes.

"A number of studies have focused on some of the most well-known cases of serial murder and serial killers who have reported child abuse in their history. John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgeway and Ed Gein are three infamous serial killers who were physically and verbally abused as children by a parent.

Rebecca Taylor LaBrode wrote in her paper 'Etiology of the Psychopathic Serial Killer,' "Other historical factors common in serial killers are abuse, trauma, loss or abandonment of a parent or caretaker, antisocial behaviour, head injury and low arousal levels. Familial contributions include the physical absence or lack of personal involvement by one or both parents and alcohol or drug dependency by one or both parents." ...

"Between 1979 and 1983 FBI profiler Robert Ressler headed the Criminal Personality Research Project where along with colleagues he interviewed 36 convicted murderers inside prisons across the US. At that time it was the first study and most comprehensive examination carried out focusing on violent criminals who had committed multiple murders, their psychological and behavioural characteristics, their histories, and their motives.

Ressler wrote in his book 'Whoever Fights Monsters' in 1992, "All the murders - every single one - were subjected to serious emotional abuse during their childhoods." He reports 40% of the serial killers interviewed reported being physically beaten and abused in their childhoods, with 70% reporting they had 'witnessed or been part of sexually stressful events' as children. .."


No demons necessary.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member


No demons necessary.
..it all depends on the definition of "demon"..
I say that it includes human beings .. the psychology behind their behaviour,
does not excuse their behaviour.
..although I would agree that society has something to learn from studying people's past experiences.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
The thing is I wonder what scriptural reasoning the pastor uses if you bring up a subject like that. (Do you believe in reincarnation? I guess that's a question that would bug the pastor if he can't reason on it with you anyway...)
I believe he may have brought up the appointed unto man once to die which begs different interpretations. I bring up John the Baptist is Elijah.
 

Soandso

ᛋᛏᚨᚾᛞ ᛋᚢᚱᛖ
..it all depends on the definition of "demon"..
I say that it includes human beings .. the psychology behind their behaviour,
does not excuse their behaviour.
..although I would agree that society has something to learn from studying people's past experiences.

If the definition of something supernatural like "demons" includes mundane things like human beings, where does the supernatural part come in? The only demons I've seen are the personal demons folks struggle against in their lives. Nothing supernatural about that
 

Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
They lied. His parents were emotionally distant and/or largely absent from his early life, arguably during the most crucial part of childhood development. His mother suffered from severe depression and suicidal ideation and was mostly unable to provide her baby with the affection and attention he required so that baby and mother weren't able to properly bond, which negatively affected Dahmer's ability to bond with other human beings as he grew up. Also, she was on a cocktail of medication throughout her pregnancy with Jeffrey. His father was mostly absent from his son's life. When he was around, most of his attention was focused on his ailing wife. He did, however, teach his son how to bleach and clean the bones of dead animals.

Many serial killers were brought up in abusive and dysfunctional homes.

"A number of studies have focused on some of the most well-known cases of serial murder and serial killers who have reported child abuse in their history. John Wayne Gacy, Gary Ridgeway and Ed Gein are three infamous serial killers who were physically and verbally abused as children by a parent.

Rebecca Taylor LaBrode wrote in her paper 'Etiology of the Psychopathic Serial Killer,' "Other historical factors common in serial killers are abuse, trauma, loss or abandonment of a parent or caretaker, antisocial behaviour, head injury and low arousal levels. Familial contributions include the physical absence or lack of personal involvement by one or both parents and alcohol or drug dependency by one or both parents." ...

"Between 1979 and 1983 FBI profiler Robert Ressler headed the Criminal Personality Research Project where along with colleagues he interviewed 36 convicted murderers inside prisons across the US. At that time it was the first study and most comprehensive examination carried out focusing on violent criminals who had committed multiple murders, their psychological and behavioural characteristics, their histories, and their motives.

Ressler wrote in his book 'Whoever Fights Monsters' in 1992, "All the murders - every single one - were subjected to serious emotional abuse during their childhoods." He reports 40% of the serial killers interviewed reported being physically beaten and abused in their childhoods, with 70% reporting they had 'witnessed or been part of sexually stressful events' as children. .."


No demons necessary.
It’s all meaningless, profile back fitting from pseudoscience that thinks it can identify and find answers. It doesn’t explain why some people are evil. What’s more no mortal can stop it. I had a friend, who, after we went fishing ran a dead fish across the top of barbed wire for no reason and did similar things with dead birds, all making me feel sick but he never became a psychopath as an adult.
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
It’s all meaningless, profile back fitting from pseudoscience that thinks it can identify and find answers. It doesn’t explain why some people are evil. What’s more no mortal can stop it. I had a friend, who, after we went fishing ran a dead fish across the top of barbed wire for no reason and did similar things with dead birds, all making me feel sick but he never became a psychopath as an adult.
No, it's not. And you've utterly failed to show that is is meaningless.
Meanwhile, I've got evidence backing my claims.
Your assertions are easily dismissed and completely lacking in evidence.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
One gains experience with something tangible. If it is tangible, then it can be demonstrated. No one has demonstrated anything here regarding identifying demons or their claimed actions.

I have no idea what the rest means. If you have false knowledge, how can you progress. Unless you are trying to con someone I suppose.
I believe tangible is not possible. My thoughts are experiential and they are not tangible either.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
It’s all meaningless, profile back fitting from pseudoscience that thinks it can identify and find answers. It doesn’t explain why some people are evil. What’s more no mortal can stop it. I had a friend, who, after we went fishing ran a dead fish across the top of barbed wire for no reason and did similar things with dead birds, all making me feel sick but he never became a psychopath as an adult.
I believe what some consider a warped mind someone else might consider creative.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I believe tangible is not possible. My thoughts are experiential and they are not tangible either.
It's as easy to,show thoughts are real as to show that air is real.
Testing either will get tangible results galore.

" Demons" have all of the typical characteristics of the nonexistent.
Any rest will fail to get any results whatsoever.

"I can call Demons from the vasty deep"

" Why yes, so can I, so can any man..But do
they come when called?"
 
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Apostle John

“Go ahead, look up Revelation 6”
I believe what some consider a warped mind someone else might consider creative.
Hmm, there are types like that, I once worked for one and would say they ticked all boxes of an extreme personality disorder. I remember someone in my position who appeared not to mind him saying he was ‘infected/affected’. Another told him in a group meeting he needed the s**t kicking out of him. He just responded by smirking/laughing saying you can’t do that. At the time I was leaving one of his colleagues whispered in passing that ‘he was demented’.

Years after I left evidence suggests he brought a university department to its knees. It made the national news with talk of closing it as students were leaving and numbers were low. He was the only one the vice chancellor asked to leave but he wouldn’t go claiming on a forum there was ‘no rot’. The government forced the vice chancellor to move to another position with Tony Blair saying he wanted no one to leave. Two years later he left, probably had to although I don’t know what the reason was. He’s still beavering away creating at another place. :D
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
If the definition of something supernatural like "demons" includes mundane things like human beings
..what do you mean "mundane"?
Human beings are not invisible, but spirit creatures are.

They are like us, in that they can be righteous, or devilish.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Not an interpretation. It's a fact.
These claims are found only in the bible. Written down by believers.
These are just mere claims. Anecdotes.

You can call them "history" all you want. In reality, they are just beliefs / claims that were written down. That's it.
opinion
Which were carefully edited and hand picked to represent the story they wanted it to reflect. And the ones doing the handpicking did so with an agenda and a bias.
None of these are independent contemporary sources.
All of them are from the hands of biased believers.

All of which provides us with reasons to be extra sceptical.
opinion

None of those are contemporary. Several of those are heavily disputed and demonstrated forgeries.
As for the rest, they are just reporting what they heard themselves from other christians.

Flat earth statement.

At this point you are just in circular thinking.
 
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