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Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That has absolutely nothing to do with the fact yhst witnesses' testimonies are evidence.
Ok. Would you agree they can be fabricated evidence?
I never said a shapeshifting cat is less absurd than "many people being resurrected from the dead" and so on.
Ok, does that mean you see them as equally absurd?
"you were indoctrinated"
Ah-ha, now I see. It's not the value of eye-witness testimony that bothers you, but what they claim to have witnessed. You seem to be trolling me for my Christian beliefs. Joke's on you. I am not "Christian".
I think what a person claims to have witnessed can have a valid effect on how one views the reliablity of their testimony. That is, whether it is a factual testimony, or most probably a fabricated testimony
You seem to have missed a lot of what I have posted. I have never said courts should accept "miracle claims" as evidence. I have said that the testimony of a witness is evidence in a court of law.
Ok, miracle claims and supernatural claims are a type of testimony. If you agree that courts should not accept them as valid evidence (as opposed to being say - fabricated evidence for example) then we are in agreement here according to my understanding.

In my opinion.
 

Hamilton

Member
Ok. Would you agree they can be fabricated evidence?
A witness in a court trial, lying!?
Perish the thought.
Ok, does that mean you see them as equally absurd?
No. (1) Used to be, a person drowned would be declared dead. Now they can be resurrected through relatively simple life-saving techniques. (2) If, however, you are referring to a more extreme situation, for example a corpse that has been buried underground for a few years, I've only seen that in movies. Fiction? Or documentary? - being presented as fiction, just to fool us!

(3) Then there is the argument made by some that "resurrection" doesn't refer to the body at all, but to the spirit. Maybe they are right. (3a) Some say it is an elevation of understandng in some group of ill-defined size, from coven-sized to word-wide.

(D) Body, spirit, soul, consciousness, strands, "matter in motion" minus the matter, I don't care, whatever happens has been happening for thousands of years to billions of people, so when it happens to me, I expect it will feel commonplace.

But many people believe that delayed physical resurrection is doable and inevitable. I am not as strongly emotionally attached to my religious beliefs as many others with clearer doctrines, so I try not to get as defensive (nor offensive, I hope) when someone does argue for their religious beliefs, whether bodily resurrection, the rapture, reincarnation, "The Atonement", Creationism, Darwinism, Three-Gods-in-One, etc.
Ok, miracle claims and supernatural claims are a type of testimony. If you agree that courts should not accept them as valid evidence (as opposed to being say - fabricated evidence for example) then we are in agreement here according to my understanding.
A court should fairly ("objectively") examine every item properly presented to it, in order to determine its admissibilty as evidence in the trial. A court has the authority, as I understand, to allow all the absurd testimonies it wants, and reject pertinent evidence, the latter seeming to me to be the more common.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
A witness in a court trial, lying!?
Perish the thought.

No. (1) Used to be, a person drowned would be declared dead. Now they can be resurrected through relatively simple life-saving techniques. (2) If, however, you are referring to a more extreme situation, for example a corpse that has been buried underground for a few years, I've only seen that in movies. Fiction? Or documentary? - being presented as fiction, just to fool us!

(3) Then there is the argument made by some that "resurrection" doesn't refer to the body at all, but to the spirit. Maybe they are right. (3a) Some say it is an elevation of understandng in some group of ill-defined size, from coven-sized to word-wide.

(D) Body, spirit, soul, consciousness, strands, "matter in motion" minus the matter, I don't care, whatever happens has been happening for thousands of years to billions of people, so when it happens to me, I expect it will feel commonplace.

But many people believe that delayed physical resurrection is doable and inevitable. I am not as strongly emotionally attached to my religious beliefs as many others with clearer doctrines, so I try not to get as defensive (nor offensive, I hope) when someone does argue for their religious beliefs, whether bodily resurrection, the rapture, reincarnation, "The Atonement", Creationism, Darwinism, Three-Gods-in-One, etc.

A court should fairly ("objectively") examine every item properly presented to it, in order to determine its admissibilty as evidence in the trial. A court has the authority, as I understand, to allow all the absurd testimonies it wants, and reject pertinent evidence, the latter seeming to me to be the more common.
Many people believe in homeopathy,
the bermuda triangle and astrology too.
Super good evidence for there really being
something to them.

Darwinism is a religion made up by ignorant creos. It has no other existence or believers.
 

Dan From Smithville

He who controls the spice controls the universe.
Staff member
Premium Member
Many people believe in homeopathy,
the bermuda triangle and astrology too.
Super good evidence for there really being
something to them.

Darwinism is a religion made up by ignorant creos. It has no other existence or believers.
That's the religion where you beat up on a dead scientist that hasn't made a direct contribution to science in over 100 years. There is the ceremony of the straw man and voicing of the logical fallacies. Not much music though.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
A court should fairly ("objectively") examine every item properly presented to it, in order to determine its admissibilty as evidence in the trial.
Yeah ok, so how do you fairly examine a miracle or other supernatural testimony?

It seems to me logical to assess them by rejecting them as unreliable evidence until such time as one of them is established through reliable evidence to exist.

Don't get me wrong i don't insist that people's beliefs be founded in pure logic, but we seem to be talking about what is provable in a court of law here, and I do insist that courts apply pure logic in reaching their conclusions, even though I give leeway to individuals to reach their conclusions taking other than strictly logical approaches.

In my opinion.
 

Hamilton

Member
Yeah ok, so how do you fairly examine a miracle or other supernatural testimony?
An attorney might be expected to examine a testimony in a number of ways. I think you would find a complete answer to your question in law books and on law websites so please go there for more details. But some of the ways would be to look at testimonies, both individually and in comparison with other testimonies and with other evidence, for relevance (irrelevance), objectivity (biases), coherence (or confusion), constency (or inconsistencies), harmony (or contradictions), the background and credibility of the witness (a professor of law, a family man, a drifter, a prostitute, a convicted forger, etc.), and so on.
 

Hamilton

Member
Many people believe in homeopathy,
the bermuda triangle and astrology too.
Super good evidence for there really being
something to them.

Darwinism is a religion made up by ignorant creos. It has no other existence or believers.
"Creos"? Darwos?

Indeed, religious people do often become defensive (and offensive) when they feel their doctrines are not being respected the way they believe they should be.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
"Creos"? Darwos?

Indeed, religious people do often become defensive (and offensive) when they feel their doctrines are not being respected the way they believe they should be.
It's a big problem for creationists aka
creos-the notion of being entitled to respect for
ignorant beliefs.
 

Hamilton

Member
It's a big problem for creationists aka
creos-the notion of being entitled to respect for
ignorant beliefs.
By religious people, I was referring specifically to Darwinists. But yes, it is a human trait found in every field of life and study, every religion, ideology, and science. No exceptions.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
By religious people, I was referring specifically to Darwinists. But yes, it is a human trait found in every field of life and study, every religion, ideology, and science. No exceptions.
The only Darwinists in existence are in the
minds of some self deluded creos.

What is this " trait" everyone has?
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
How did you know it was a demon?
The word "father" doesn't necessarily carry any religious baggage with it. It seems that you just assumed it did, because ... ?

Without any further information, it sounds like what you just described was schizophrenia.
I believe Schizophrenia is the condition of a mind that can't deal with the reality of demons. Usually the practice is to make all things spiritual go away by blocking them. The remedy does not change reality it just covers it up.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Many people believe in homeopathy,
the bermuda triangle and astrology too.
Super good evidence for there really being
something to them.

Darwinism is a religion made up by ignorant creos. It has no other existence or believers.
I believe there ae things that are true about those things and things that are not true. Do you have any idea how ignorant the general public is about such things?
 

gnostic

The Lost One
I believe that is convenient. There aren't any demons because you say there are not.
What I meant to say, there are no evidence for any demon.

What you do have are traditions and stories of demons (myths), but there are no evidence as there are none for fairies or for goblins.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I believe there ae things that are true about those things and things that are not true. Do you have any idea how ignorant the general public is about such things?
I surely do. The world is full of superstitious
ignorant people who have no sense. China has its
share of folk beliefs / superstitions.
Just the other day my friend was complaining
about her mom thinking a big moth in the house was
her dead husband visiting.


What you could possibly mean by
" things that are true about those things
is a bit vague.

You think "Darwinism" is true or not true or some
things about it are true or false?
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I believe that is convenient. There aren't any demons because you say there are not.
Funny. The only existence of daemons,
Batboy, Nessie, Bigfoot, " god"! Etc
is, yes, that they exist because someone
sausage ( pretends) they exist
 

Hamilton

Member
Who or what are "Darwinists" and how are they religious?
Haha. "-ist" is a common suffix for a person, e.g. scientist, polemicist, antagonist, creationist, polytheist. "-ist" does not perform the same function in words like twist, mist, gist, wist, wrist.
Darwinists are religious as are the -ists of other religious views - dualists, buddhists, deists, etc.
 
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