Destruction of Al Aqsa Mosque!!!

[TashaN]

I'm not quite sure what there is to debate, it just seems more of the same old thing that seems to have no end. I'm not trying to offend anybody but the Old Testament seems to have the Hebrews as the chosen people and the Koran seems to have the Muslims as the chosen people, and they have been killing each other ever since- the Holy Land?

Wrong.

 

[Frank Bunneh]

Wrong.

How so?

 

[Moishe3rd]

I'm not quite sure what there is to debate, it just seems more of the same old thing that seems to have no end. I'm not trying to offend anybody but the Old Testament seems to have the Hebrews as the chosen people and the Koran seems to have the Muslims as the chosen people, and they have been killing each other ever since- the Holy Land?

Your religious terminology and comparisons are incorrect.
In the Torah - which is the first five books of what it commonly called the "old testament" and given to the Jews over 3,000 years ago, G-d creates an agreement with the Jewish People that they should live in the Land that He Promises to give to them, the Land of Israel. The Jewish People in turn Promise to obey G-d and His Laws that He gave to them in His Torah.
This is the simple understanding of why Jews claim the Land of Israel which you are referring to as "the Holy Land."

According to Islam, the Koran came to Mohammad via an angel. This Koran was later written down after Mohammad's death.
In it, Mohammad clearly refers to the Land of Israel as belonging to the Jews.
In the Koran, Chapter 17; Surah Al-Isra' (The Journey by Night), it says:
"And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd."

However,
In the Koran, Chapter 17; Surah Al-Isra' (The Journey by Night), it also says:
"Glorified be He Who took His slave for a journey by night from Al-Masjid-al-Haram to the farthest mosque, the neighborhood whereof We have blessed, in order that We might show him of Our Ayat. Verily, He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer."
This referred to a vision or dream that Muhammad had.
" Caliph Omar ibn al Khattab (579-644) was advised by his associate, Ka'ab al-Ahbar, a Jewish rabbi who converted to Islam,[4] that the Night Journey (Isra and Mi'raj), which is mentioned in the Quran and specified by the hadiths of being located in Jerusalem, took place at the site of the former Jewish Temples."

The Temple Mount, as a result of this dream and the subsequent interpretation, then became "the third holiest place in Islam."

Israel and The Land of Israel, has no particular significance in the Koran other than being the Land of the Jews.

 

[TashaN]

How so?

Muslims and Jews were not killing each other prior to the creation of the Zionist entity called Israel. So their main issue is not with Jews, but with the Zionists who occupied their land, Palestine. So, It's purely a political conflict.

"Islam, which was rising in the East, had a different view of the Jews as it accorded a special status to ‘the People of the Book’ (people who believe in the same God and follow their scriptures which are meant to give them divine guidance to the same eternal truth) and hence deserve to be treated with respect, dignity and religious freedom. The followers of Jesus and Moses were given full religious freedom in the Islamic civilization and their faith and religions were respected."

Abrahamic Religions: The Star, the Cross, and the Crescent | ReligiousForums.com

 

[YmirGF]

Muslims and Jews were not killing each other prior to the creation of the Zionist entity called Israel. So their main issue is not with Jews, but with the Zionists who occupied their land, Palestine. So, It's purely a political conflict.

"Islam, which was rising in the East, had a different view of the Jews as it accorded a special status to ‘the People of the Book’ (people who believe in the same God and follow their scriptures which are meant to give them divine guidance to the same eternal truth) and hence deserve to be treated with respect, dignity and religious freedom. The followers of Jesus and Moses were given full religious freedom in the Islamic civilization and their faith and religions were respected."

Abrahamic Religions: The Star, the Cross, and the Crescent | ReligiousForums.com

Except, of course, when they stepped out of line. At such times they were brutally suppressed. Just sayin'...

 

[TashaN]

Except, of course, when they stepped out of line. At such times they were brutally suppressed. Just sayin'...

Certain political incidents did occur in the past between Muslims and others, not only Jews, but my point is, there was never a religious conflict between them.

 

[Moishe3rd]

Muslims and Jews were not killing each other prior to the creation of the Zionist entity called Israel. So their main issue is not with Jews, but with the Zionists who occupied their land, Palestine. So, It's purely a political conflict.

"Islam, which was rising in the East, had a different view of the Jews as it accorded a special status to ‘the People of the Book’ (people who believe in the same God and follow their scriptures which are meant to give them divine guidance to the same eternal truth) and hence deserve to be treated with respect, dignity and religious freedom. The followers of Jesus and Moses were given full religious freedom in the Islamic civilization and their faith and religions were respected."

Abrahamic Religions: The Star, the Cross, and the Crescent | ReligiousForums.com

Your narrative is a lie.

Part one "Muslims and Jews were not killing each other.." implies that the current false meme of "a cycle of violence" began when the State of Israel was formed. "The cycle of violence" is a lie today as it was then.
As noted above, Muslims and Arabs have been murdering each other and non Muslims and non Arabs in ever increasing numbers since the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and the rise of the heresy of Wahhabism as the Saudi tribe brutally conquered the Arabian Peninsula and the "Two Noble Sanctuaries."
The "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem" al-Husseini, took his particular brand of Islam directly from a combination of fascist Wahhabism and violently anti-Semitic Naziism. He began encouraging Arabs to murder Jews long before the State of Israel was established.

It is quite bizarre that you and others wish to believe that the massive slaughter of millions perpetrated by Arabs and Muslims against their own and the rest of the world for the last 100 years is someone the "fault" of your "Zionist entity."
Either, the mass butchery that is going on in the Arab/ Muslim world is, indeed, the fault of Israel or, your entire narrative, as noted, is a lie.

And, of course, your quote: "The followers of Jesus and Moses were given full religious freedom in the Islamic civilization and their faith and religions were respected." is also a lie by virtue of simply leaving out the additional datum that Christians and Jews were periodically slaughtered by Muslims from time to time as the particular Muslim rulers became more fanatical or intolerant and, that under all circumstances they were second class citizens forced to pay the dhimmi tax; live in restricted areas; and to wear special clothing.

Your entire narrative is a lie.

 

[TashaN]

Your narrative is a lie.

Part one "Muslims and Jews were not killing each other.." implies that the current false meme of "a cycle of violence" began when the State of Israel was formed. "The cycle of violence" is a lie today as it was then.
As noted above, Muslims and Arabs have been murdering each other and non Muslims and non Arabs in ever increasing numbers since the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire and the rise of the heresy of Wahhabism as the Saudi tribe brutally conquered the Arabian Peninsula and the "Two Noble Sanctuaries."
The "Grand Mufti of Jerusalem" al-Husseini, took his particular brand of Islam directly from a combination of fascist Wahhabism and violently anti-Semitic Naziism. He began encouraging Arabs to murder Jews long before the State of Israel was established.

It is quite bizarre that you and others wish to believe that the massive slaughter of millions perpetrated by Arabs and Muslims against their own and the rest of the world for the last 100 years is someone the "fault" of your "Zionist entity."
Either, the mass butchery that is going on in the Arab/ Muslim world is, indeed, the fault of Israel or, your entire narrative, as noted, is a lie.

And, of course, your quote: "The followers of Jesus and Moses were given full religious freedom in the Islamic civilization and their faith and religions were respected." is also a lie by virtue of simply leaving out the additional datum that Christians and Jews were periodically slaughtered by Muslims from time to time as the particular Muslim rulers became more fanatical or intolerant and, that under all circumstances they were second class citizens forced to pay the dhimmi tax; live in restricted areas; and to wear special clothing.

Your entire narrative is a lie.

Can you prove that Muslims were systematically targeting Jews the way Christians were targeting Muslims and Jews alike based on religious reasons?

 

[Moishe3rd]

Can you prove that Muslims were systematically targeting Jews the way Christians were targeting Muslims and Jews alike based on religious reasons?

Your question is ambiguous.
"Can you prove..." would require a rather extensive history lesson covering the last 1400 years.
And/ or - the rest of your question implies that you are inquiring vis a vis the historical evidence of that time period.
In addition, most people who believe in any false narrative, do not accept historical evidence that contradicts their beliefs.
I would suggest Googling something along the lines of "the History of Islam" in order to begin to educate yourself as to whatever "proofs" you are looking for.

 

[YmirGF]

Certain political incidents did occur in the past between Muslims and others, not only Jews, but my point is, there was never a religious conflict between them.

But, TashaN, you cannot separate a Muslim from his or her Islam with a crowbar. To suggest that these incident were purely political is disingenuous as Islam covers every aspect of daily life for the Muslim.

 

[TashaN]

Your question is ambiguous.
"Can you prove..." would require a rather extensive history lesson covering the last 1400 years.
And/ or - the rest of your question implies that you are inquiring vis a vis the historical evidence of that time period.
In addition, most people who believe in any false narrative, do not accept historical evidence that contradicts their beliefs.
I would suggest Googling something along the lines of "the History of Islam" in order to begin to educate yourself as to whatever "proofs" you are looking for.

You claimed something, and yet, you were unable to back it up. Hence lie the ignorance and prejudice.

 

[TashaN]

But, TashaN, you cannot separate a Muslim from his or her Islam with a crowbar. To suggest that these incident were purely political is disingenuous as Islam covers every aspect of daily life for the Muslim.

Yeah, but who said Muslims don't make mistakes just like any other living being? If it was a matter of a belief than that's a problem, but if it is only about actions for some Muslims then you can't generalize it on all Muslims.

 

[YmirGF]

Yeah, but who said Muslims don't make mistakes just like any other living being? If it was a matter of a belief than that's a problem, but if it is only about actions for some Muslims then you can't generalize it on all Muslims.

But when their religious zeal outshines their constructive thought causing them to make "mistakes" that is problematic. Given that so much in the religion is open to interpretation, almost mood, one can twist and turn the passages to justify virtually any actions. That said, Islam has too many adherents to make blanket statements, but the above is a large enough problem to be cause for concern.

 

[TashaN]

But when their religious zeal outshines their constructive thought causing them to make "mistakes" that is problematic. Given that so much in the religion is open to interpretation, almost mood, one can twist and turn the passages to justify virtually any actions. That said, Islam has too many adherents to make blanket statements, but the above is a large enough problem to be cause for concern.

But you forgot that Muslims, just like non-Muslims, are not allowed to act on their own. They need to follow the commands of their leader. If they acted on their own then that means they broke the law, and will suffer the consequences, just like in any other nation.

 

[YmirGF]

But you forgot that Muslims, just like non-Muslims, are not allowed to act on their own. They need to follow the commands of their leader. If they acted on their own then that means they broke the law, and will suffer the consequences, just like in any other nation.

Hehe. Tell that to the rampaging mobs that arose during the much ballyhooed so-called "Arab spring". You know, that period that came just before the chill of the "Arab winter" began to take a strangle hold...

 

[Flankerl]

Can you prove that Muslims were systematically targeting Jews the way Christians were targeting Muslims and Jews alike based on religious reasons?

The massacres of Hebron and Safed come to mind.

Though there was a proper reason to murder those Jews. After all they wanted to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque.

 

[TashaN]

The massacres of Hebron and Safed come to mind.

Though there was a proper reason to murder those Jews. After all they wanted to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque.

You really want to go there? you know the Israeli government isn't the oh so peaceful fragile entity.

 

[TashaN]

Hehe. Tell that to the rampaging mobs that arose during the much ballyhooed so-called "Arab spring". You know, that period that came just before the chill of the "Arab winter" began to take a strangle hold...

No comment.

 

[Flankerl]

You really want to go there? you know the Israeli government isn't the oh so peaceful fragile entity.

But you asked the question whether Arabs did something like that.

Not my problem if you can't handle the answer.

 

[Avi1001]

Note that this was published on March 2000. I really hope that there are many Jews today who condemn these acts, as i have noticed that many human rights in Israel are really working hard to show the suffering of the Palestinians.

Great post, Tasha....I have often thought that this issue is going to be a focal point of the Middle East (ME) future.

Can anyone envision an "Interfaith Museum"....located in this location....where the 3 religions could co-exist ?

I call for a cool headed discussion of this issue....where we put the extremists on "ignore"....and discuss it rationally......anyone want to try it?....