Destruction of Al Aqsa Mosque!!!

[columbus]

Great post, Tasha....I have often thought that this issue is going to be a focal point of the Middle East (ME) future.

Can anyone envision an "Interfaith Museum"....located in this location....where the 3 religions could co-exist ?

I call for a cool headed discussion of this issue....where we put the extremists on "ignore"....and discuss it rationally......anyone want to try it?....

I'll try it

The world, from Temple Mount to Texas, is littered with old wrongs. Most will never be made right because they have been set into concrete in the most literal possible way. When these wrongs were done Might Made Right. We live in a better world now, somewhat. Ancient wrongs are recognized, but not considered justifications for new ones.

Al Aqsa has been where it is for 1400 years, sorta. That is longer than the two previous temples stood put together. It is now a monumental human treasure. It should be preserved as best we can, and by "we" I mean everybody. I don't care what any ancient book says about property rights. Modern God says "Thou shalt not fight to the death over some little parcel of real estate!" (I know this because I just prayed on it.)

There is no reason why Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Others cannot all appreciate it at the same time. It is just a thing, but the thing is pretty large. Make most of it a museum, and rope off some small parts for the kind of religionists that aren't good about sharing.

Tom

 

[Avi1001]

I'll try it

The world, from Temple Mount to Texas, is littered with old wrongs. Most will never be made right because they have been set into concrete in the most literal possible way. When these wrongs were done Might Made Right. We live in a better world now, somewhat. Ancient wrongs are recognized, but not considered justifications for new ones.

Al Aqsa has been where it is for 1400 years, sorta. That is longer than the two previous temples stood put together. It is now a monumental human treasure. It should be preserved as best we can, and by "we" I mean everybody. I don't care what any ancient book says about property rights. Modern God says "Thou shalt not fight to the death over some little parcel of real estate!" (I know this because I just prayed on it.)

There is no reason why Jews, Muslims, Christians, and Others cannot all appreciate it at the same time. It is just a thing, but the thing is pretty large. Make most of it a museum, and rope off some small parts for the kind of religionists that aren't good about sharing.

Tom

Nice, post, Tom....maybe we can turn this thread around...from virulent hate talk...to constructive discussion !

 

[YmirGF]

Make most of it a museum, and rope off some small parts for the kind of religionists that aren't good about sharing.

Yeah, I'm sure most Muslims would go with this suggestion.

 

[Avi1001]

Yeah, I'm sure most Muslims would go with this suggestion.

That's the real problem in the ME, isn't it.....no one will give even one inch...how can things ever improve ?

How have things ever improved, anywhere, thoughout history ?

1) An inspired leader shows up.
2) People become more educated.

Is there a 3rd possibility ? If so, I am not aware.

Do the people of the ME need to wait for an inspired leader ? It could take hundreds or thousands of years....that leaves only one logical approach ......

 

[columbus]

Yeah, I'm sure most Muslims would go with this suggestion.

I am absolutely certain that most would. The problem is going to be the violent extremists, which are not exclusively Muslims.

Tom

 

[Avi1001]

I am absolutely certain that most would. The problem is going to be the violent extremists, which are not exclusively Muslims.

Tom

I agree, Tom....well stated !!

 

[columbus]

I agree, Tom....well stated !!

Just let us atheists take over running religion. We'll sort all this out by February!


Tom

 

[melk]

Sometimes I just seem to lose my hope of any solution. Hate is like a poison, and it is easier to hate someone, because doing so, you are throwing on him the blame for your failure or unhappiness. It is the "me or him" solution.
People say that this conflict has a ancestral origin. It woud be the unfinished fight between Ismael and Isac, Esau and Jaco. There would be much presumption, proud and envy rooted in the ME people.
My hope comes from finding in this forum jews and arab-muslims that dont behave this way.

 

[Avi1001]

Sometimes I just seem to lose my hope of any solution. Hate is like a poison, and it is easier to hate someone, because doing so, you are throwing on him the blame for your failure or unhappiness. It is the "me or him" solution.
People say that this conflict has a ancestral origin. It woud be the unfinished fight between Ismael and Isac, Esau and Jaco. There would be much presumption, proud and envy rooted in the ME people.
My hope comes from finding in this forum jews and arab-muslims that dont behave this way.

Great Melki...you just gave me a new idea....I am going to propose a new "Interfaith DIR", where members of all religions can speak freely....without fear of being thrown out for advocating, peace, liberty and the pursuit of freedom.

 

[CMike]

If Israel wanted to destroy the mosque there would be no mosque. This was the dumbest deal Israel ever made.

It's on Israel's holiest site. Here Israel allows muslims to worship in Israel how they want to worship, and preventing their own Jewish citizens from worshipping in their own country at their holiest site.

Do the muslims appreciate this? No.

Obviously, the status quo of Israel just giving, the muslim leaders just taking, being more violent, and demanding more, isn't working.

Of course, Jews should be allowed to worship as they wish at their holiest site, especially in their own country.

I am not reading the whole OP article because it's just a waste of time. However, I just want to point out that it is NOT islams holiest site. Islams holiest site is in Mecca.

 

[Moishe3rd]

You claimed something, and yet, you were unable to back it up. Hence lie the ignorance and prejudice.

I'm guessing that English is not your language.
"Can you prove that Muslims were systematically targeting Jews the way Christians were targeting Muslims and Jews alike based on religious reasons?"
Is a tortured question in English.
Your question might be interpreted as: Can you prove that Muslims were killing Jews for the last 1400 years (since the beginning of Islam) for the same religious reasons that Christians were killing Muslims and Jews for the last 1400 years?
If that interpretation of your question is correct, then your question is not something that I have been discussing or positing. In other words, your question is ambiguous.
If that is not your question, then - your question is incomprehensible.

In other words, your narrative is still a lie.
You are asking me to prove something for which there is no reference point in my previous statements.
This is a common tactic when a person doesn't want to discuss a subject.
The person might try and bring up an irrelevant or off topic question and ask it as if that was the subject under discussion.
It's not
I directly answered your false narrative by giving you historical data.
Feel free to try and refute my statements with your own historical data..
However, if you are interested in the truth of the matter, try and refrain from running away by attempting to change the subject.

 

[CMike]

The conflict is not between Islam and Judaism. It is about Palestinians and Israelis. A political issue, not a religious one. Did the European Ashkenazim Jews have a right to kick out the Palestinians from their homes to make the State of Israel? They even kicked out the Palestinian Jews. Not all Palestinians are Muslims about 30% are Christians there are also Jewish Palestinians and even atheist Palestinians.

The issue is purely a religion one. The muslim leadershp doesn't accept Israel's existence at all in any form.

Also palestine is called Jordan. There never was a mulsim country called palestine, also they were never kicked out.

They are occupying the west bank, gaza, and half of Israel's capital. These are actually jordanians in the west bank and egyptians in gaza.

 

[Woodrow LI]

The issue is purely a religion one. The muslim leadershp doesn't accept Israel's existence at all in any form.

Also palestine is called Jordan. There never was a mulsim country called palestine, also they were never kicked out.

They are occupying the west bank, gaza, and half of Israel's capital. These are actually jordanians in the west bank and egyptians in gaza.

You seem to be under the impression there is a central Muslim leadership. We do not even have any ordained clergy. There is no big chief Muslim we all follow. We owe our religious allegiance to Allaah(swt) alone. No Muslim has religious superiority over another Muslim

You sure there was no Palestine?

From a Jewish site

Though the definite origins of the word "Palestine" have been debated for years and are still not known for sure, the name is believed to be derived from the Egyptian and Hebrew word peleshet. Roughly translated to mean "rolling" or "migratory," the term was used to describe the inhabitants of the land to the northeast of Egypt - the Philistines. The Philistines were an Aegean people - more closely related to the Greeks and with no connection ethnically, linguisticly or historically with Arabia - who conquered in the 12th Century BCE the Mediterranean coastal plain that is now Israel and Gaza.

A derivitave of the name "Palestine" first appears in Greek literature in the 5th Century BCE when the historian Herodotus called the area "Palaistinē" (Greek - Παλαιστίνη). In the 2nd century CE, the Romans crushed the revolt of Shimon Bar Kokhba (132 CE), during which Jerusalem and Judea were regained and the area of Judea was renamed Palaestina in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel.

SOURCE

 

[Moishe3rd]

You seem to be under the impression there is a central Muslim leadership. We do not even have any ordained clergy. There is no big chief Muslim we all follow. We owe our religious allegiance to Allaah(swt) alone. No Muslim has religious superiority over another Muslim

You sure there was no Palestine?

From a Jewish site


SOURCE

"There never was a Muslim country called Palestine" is a 100% accurate statement.
There was also never a Muslim country called "Rome," or "Greece" or any other amount of irrelevant names.
And, to be 100% accurate - the Hebrew word "Plistim" means "invaders."
So, yes - the original meaning of the name that those Arabs who want to call themselves "Palestinians" have chosen, was a Jewish epithet meaning invaders.
And, Hamas Minister of the Interior and of National Security, Fathi Hammad, clearly states in this video that the "Palestinians" are, indeed, invaders from other countries.

 

[TashaN]

Nice, post, Tom....maybe we can turn this thread around...from virulent hate talk...to constructive discussion !

Indeed, i really hope so.

 

[TashaN]

If Israel wanted to destroy the mosque there would be no mosque. This was the dumbest deal Israel ever made.

It's on Israel's holiest site. Here Israel allows muslims to worship in Israel how they want to worship, and preventing their own Jewish citizens from worshipping in their own country at their holiest site.

Do the muslims appreciate this? No.

Obviously, the status quo of Israel just giving, the muslim leaders just taking, being more violent, and demanding more, isn't working.

Of course, Jews should be allowed to worship as they wish at their holiest site, especially in their own country.

I am not reading the whole OP article because it's just a waste of time. However, I just want to point out that it is NOT islams holiest site. Islams holiest site is in Mecca.

You do realize that it is Palestine on the first place, not Israel which was later CREATED by stripping lands from the Palestinians.

 

[Estro Felino]

You do realize that it is Palestine on the first place, not Israel which was later CREATED by stripping lands from the Palestinians.

they bought lands regularly.
why do Palestinians find unacceptable to live in a democratic country?

 

[TashaN]

I'm guessing that English is not your language.
"Can you prove that Muslims were systematically targeting Jews the way Christians were targeting Muslims and Jews alike based on religious reasons?"
Is a tortured question in English.
Your question might be interpreted as: Can you prove that Muslims were killing Jews for the last 1400 years (since the beginning of Islam) for the same religious reasons that Christians were killing Muslims and Jews for the last 1400 years?
If that interpretation of your question is correct, then your question is not something that I have been discussing or positing. In other words, your question is ambiguous.
If that is not your question, then - your question is incomprehensible.

In other words, your narrative is still a lie.
You are asking me to prove something for which there is no reference point in my previous statements.
This is a common tactic when a person doesn't want to discuss a subject.
The person might try and bring up an irrelevant or off topic question and ask it as if that was the subject under discussion.
It's not
I directly answered your false narrative by giving you historical data.
Feel free to try and refute my statements with your own historical data..
However, if you are interested in the truth of the matter, try and refrain from running away by attempting to change the subject.

Yes, English is not my first language, but that doesn't mean i can't clearly communicate my thoughts. Leaving aside my skills in English, it's funny that you mentioned stating a *historical data* because all what i can remember was reading this nonsense.

There is no history except the for the demented fantasies of the Muslim World.
Sorry to have intruded. Continue hirabah amongst yourselves...

Is this what you call a historical data Mr. English?

Where is your historical data?

 

[TashaN]

Also palestine is called Jordan. There never was a mulsim country called palestine, also they were never kicked out.

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."
Balfour Declaration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also read:
1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[rosends]

You do realize that it is Palestine on the first place, not Israel which was later CREATED by stripping lands from the Palestinians.

The issue is a political one regarding the name of an area. The region was renamed "Palestina" a long time ago but that was simply the label for a geographical region. There is no country called "North America" or city called "New England" -- these are labels useful on maps for referring to an area. There was never a country called "Palestine" or any specific identity which delineated "Palestinians" as a unique cultural or historical entity. In fact, if you look at The Palestine Post newspaper from pre-1948, you will see that it was a Jewish paper. Coins indicating the area on them also have the letters aleph-yod (the abbreviation for "The Land of Israel") on them (the currency was the "Palestine Pound" to reflect the British influence.). All the people living there were "Palestinians" in the sense that all people in the new world were "North Americans."