Rick O'Shez
Irishman bouncing off walls
How would you recognise an Atman? How would you know it was an Atman?
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AFAIK the atman is subtle, unable to be detected through the senses. It has no form, it's smaller than an atom. To recognise my atman would be to recognise that i am alive.
I would assume so, yes.So Atman is a belief rather than something to be discovered or revealed?
It all depends of where you are at, man. (poor humour, but couldn't resist)How would you recognise an Atman? How would you know it was an Atman?
. No one has the capability to see atma but it can be known or recognized from shastras or from deepest levels of meditation.
There are practices given by Sri Krushna in BhagawadGita, the first 6 chapters of BhagawadGita combined are called as 'Atma sAkshAtkAram' (meaning the knowing/making a clear distinction between atma and shareera(physical body) and attaining atma . The practices start from knowing what is atma in reality and what are the attributes of atma and how does atma experience the cycles of birth and death and how does it wander after death and how difficult it is for atma/us again to obtain human body, by knowing all these kinds of stuff, atma is said to be known and a constant sAdhana is required and for attaining this one has to have a complete disgust of body and only focused innerwards. Atma is a non-materialistic thing which cannot be known through your 6 physical sensesThere are all kinds of meditative experiences, but how would you know if a particular experience was anything to do with atman? How would you recognise it? How would you know?
How would you recognise an Atman? How would you know it was an Atman?
Atma is a non-materialistic thing which cannot be known through your 6 physical senses
It is in those that realize it. Just because a majority doesn't realize it and doesn't live in Peace, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means we should do whatever it takes to realize it since most don't realize Peace. The weight of the evidence of its validity is the reports of those who realize it and the quality of their lives before and after.I expect that if Atman existed, people would be a lot less voluble, more ethical, more certain of themselves. Which is probably why the belief exists in the first place, come to think of it. It certainly isn't due to the weight of the evidence.
It is in those that realize it. Just because a majority doesn't realize it and doesn't live in Peace, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It means we should do whatever it takes to realize it since most don't realize Peace. The weight of the evidence of its validity is the reports of those who realize it and the quality of their lives before and after.
Think of it like love. You ask yourself how will you know when you actually know love when you have yet to experience it. Then after you do the answer is obvious. You know it by knowing it. You can't look for it as it presupposes it's something outside yourself, rather than something you fully have already, but simply haven't yet realized. Love does not exist outside you that "comes" to you. Same with Atman. The only thing that happens is you pull back the curtain of illusion and it becomes revealed.So how can it be known?
Ataman is not an idea. It's also not magic. It's simply a realization which shifts our ideas about ourselves and reality. It shifts the center of gravity from where we are looking out from.I assume you're including mind as the 6th sense base here?
Ataman is not an idea. It's also not magic. It's simply a realization which shifts our ideas about ourselves and reality. It shifts the center of gravity from where we are looking out from.
LSD, DMT, and the like can certainly have that effect the same way meditation practices open one to that realization. It's not the drug itself, nor the practice of mediation itself that produces it, but rather they simply aid in pulling back the veil of illusion allowing you to realize this world of "reality" we normally live in isn't all it's cracked up to be. Realizing that, opens one to knowing Peace, in ever-increasing depths of realization, or "attainment" in themselves. (I prefer the word realize over attain as it's nothing one finds outside themselves anymore than one 'attains' their own eyes).The same could be said for the LSD experience.
LSD, DMT, and the like can certainly have that effect the same way meditation practices open one to that realization. It's not the drug itself, nor the practice of mediation itself that produces it, but rather they simply aid in pulling back the veil of illusion allowing you to realize this world of "reality" we normally live in isn't all it's cracked up to be. Realizing that, opens one to knowing Peace, in ever-increasing depths of realization, or "attainment" in themselves. (I prefer the word realize over attain as it's nothing one finds outside themselves anymore than one 'attains' their own eyes).
Personally I would be careful to not be so literal in having a "disgust" of the body. While I agree one needs to be constantly aware we are more than our body, as well as more than the thoughts of our own minds, to be "disgusted" with oneself can in fact lead to a dissociation and sickness. There is validity in understanding that the impulses of the body, or the habits of the mind are not where our gaze should be held exclusively, learning to "overcome" that exclusivity is what liberates, but the body and the mind are still our own! It's the skin-sack we live in, and to literally hate that is to deny what the Atman lives in!atma is said to be known and a constant sAdhana is required and for attaining this one has to have a complete disgust of body and only focused innerwards.
What "jargon" would you propose instead to talk about it?Yep. And all without any need for jargon or orthodoxy of any kind. That's the take-home lesson.