Diamonds a girls best friend? I think not!

[AfterGlow]

Diamonds are overrated in my opinion, they turn into graphite over time anyway, so they don't last forever as people say.
And I think silver is nicer than gold. So I guess if I bought anyone an engagement ring, I'd like it a lot more than she would.

 

[Vendetta]

Amen, Rick!

I love beautiful things - I consider anything beautiful to be a work of art, even if it is strictly something utilitarian. I want it around me, if it will beautify (and not clutter) my own environment. That's why I had to have this:

How does this simple glass pitcher relate to a diamond ring? Well, a beautiful stone, even a very small one, will catch my eye when it's well set and flawless. In fact, I'd rather have a very small, flawless diamond than one that's large but cloudy.

I have more money now than I did when I was in my twenties (that's the way it's supposed to be, right?). So my home is furnished with quality furniture, and I have collected over the years some quality jewelry. However, I was just as happy in my first home - the one with military issue bedroom furniture, and a sofa I bought for five dollars at a garage sale. That's because I loved the way the dark wood of the bed against the creamy white wall paint looked so clean with that navy blue bedspread and white sheer curtains on the big window. I loved the way the light from the big windows in the living room sparkled on the mason jar holding the brilliant fall leaves from the woods behind the quarters, and how those old wood floors gleamed as the setting sun poured in.

In other words, it's not materialism - it's appreciation for beauty. Add to that the idea of my husband loving me so much that he wants me to think of him everytime the sun catches that diamond, and yes...I love my wedding band.

Glass pitchers have nothing to do with the argument I present on diamonds. Again you're a product of Pavlov's statement on classical conditioning. You were conditioned by the marketing companies that sale jewelry to make associations between your internal feeling, and aesthetic value. If this was solely an independent thought by you, what you just said wouldn't be common. Like I said I am not devaluing anything you enjoy. Its impossible for me anyway since you would brush me off. Here is the challenge for you: Diamonds are not forever just as people are not infinite. If you divorce what intrinsic emotional.value does the diamond carry then? A shadow of a previous love? That to me is a sad tale of entrapping ideas of emotions in a rock but the challenge for you is to answer that.

 

[Vendetta]

Diamonds are overrated in my opinion, they turn into graphite over time anyway, so they don't last forever as people say.
And I think silver is nicer than gold. So I guess if I bought anyone an engagement ring, I'd like it a lot more than she would.

Afterglow you beat me to it! Besides eventually you have to repair diamonds over time.

 

[Vendetta]

How does the divorce rate support your statement that a wedding band is not a symbol of love?
If I divorce my wife next year for whatever reason does that mean I didn`t love her when I gave her the ring?
Is my divorce evidence that my love was not real when I made my vows?

I don`t think so.
Please ... provide some evidence of your claim that a wedding band is not a symbol of love.


Please provide some evidence to support this utterly false grasping assertion as well.



Imagine my surprise!!



How is a divorce rate an acceptable measure of correlation to a human emotion?
How can there be any acceptable standard of measure to match whatever correlation to any human emotion?

Like everything else loves changes, disappears altogether and many people become divorced for reasons beyond and besides a loss of love.

I may agree that love is intangible and immaterial but I am well aware of it`s biochemical value in my life.

The fact that it is in so many ways immaterial and intangible is why we as humans create things to symbolize it`s worth to us.
True, we often fall far short in our efforts but I don`t think we can be faulted for trying.

I will respond to this shortly as soon as I get some liquor in me this thread requires that I get hammered.

 

[Darkness]

We'd all like to believe that we are independent of the greater social structure, but as each individual shapes it, it ultimately shapes us. For instance, the classic sociological example is marriage. We all like to believe that we marry who we love. Yeah, that's right, we usually do. But who we love is statistically associated with categories such as: race, ethnicity, class, etc. Obviously there are many people who break that mould, but on average it holds true.

 

[Vendetta]

We'd all like to believe that we are independent of the greater social structure, but as each individual shapes it, it ultimately shapes us. For instance, the classic sociological example is marriage. We all like to believe that we marry who we love. Yeah, that's right, we usually do. But who we love is statistically associated with categories such as: race, ethnicity, class, etc. Obviously there are many people who break that mould, but on average it holds true.

Lol darkness you didn't have to parrot I was saying. I do agree with you however

 

[Darkness]

Lol darkness you didn't have to parrot I was saying. I do agree with you however

It was more an attempt to condense what you said in one paragraph.

 

[Songbird]

Well, other issues aside, my top choice for a wedding gem is tanzanite, then Alexandrite.

Google Image Result for http://www.palagems.com/Images/bancroft_tanzanite/tanzanite_xtal.jpg

Three Stone Lab-Created Alexandrite Ring with Diamond Accents in 14K White Gold - View All - Zales

I have a bit of magpie syndrome, though I rarely wear any jewelry. I like to lookey loo. I also like moissanite for a clear gem.

 

[Vendetta]

@linwood

Because I mostly make my points on my phone I cannot piece by piece comment on your statement so I have to type out your responses to me.

Linwood: "How does the divorce rate support your statement that a wedding band is not a symbol of love?"

Me: Well for one, rings are conditionally binding. As I mentioned earlier, if a woman who receives an engagement ring and then decides to call it off, the one who bought the ring can sue to get his ring back diamonds and all. The law sees engagement rings as conditional property. The law doesn't see it as a gift of love but a condition that the other party must fulfill. That is one point. The other point is that if we encapsulate our emotional attachment in a ring and the marriage doesn't work out the ring only carries the shadow of our previous engagement, and if we remarry the ring thus loses its value since our devotion will be for the other. Besides the ring is only a conditional representation that each party will continue to be committed to each other and the fact that the divorce rate is so high for first time married and even higher for those in second and third marriages love being represented by diamond rings are arbitrary.

Linwood: " If I divorce my wife next year for whatever reason, does that mean I didn't.love her when I gave her the ring?"

Me: I am sure you sincerely loved her. I am merely saying you were conditioned to show that love buy purhasing a diamond ring.

Linwood: "Is my divorce evidence that my love was not real when I made my vows?"

Me: I can't believe you asked me that. Life decisions you make when it involves someone else, done out of sincerity, is something I cannot, and will not argue against. When you decide to tell your wife you want to spend your life with her that was your choice. Who am I to say that wasn't valid? You know in your heart it was.

Linwood: "Please provide evidence that a ring is not a symbol of love."

Me: I never said I had evidence that a ring did not mean love. I said it doesnt which is a factual claim that needs evidence. I did provide my own anecdotal evidence, but I also provided that link about diamonds which covered all of what we just discussed. I also provided philosophical and psychological arguments why rings are misguided representations of love. The key words here is classical conditioning. My utterly false grasping proposition as you labeled it, is indeed true. American families are changing. Our ideas of love are changing. In the working world women are catching up to men in wage earnings. The traditional family is changing. People are having kids out of wedlock and even during marriage some couples are having trouble adjusting to each other. Love can't repair a relationship if there is no compatibility and it for damn sure cannot keep a relationship together if the relationship truly doesn't work.

Linwood: "How is divorce rate an acceptable measure of human emotion?"

Me: Easy. Human society and the dynamics of the family are changing. It explains that there are fluxuations in human decisions, life events, and perceptions of what will last. Of course people divorce for many reasons but the fact that reported divorce rates is 44% and higher for second, third, and fourth, is terrifying. The statistics means a lot. It means some aren't relationship material. It means some cannot be alone. It means some make impulsive decisions to marry why do you think "drive thru weddings in vegas" are popular? (see Brittany Spears). It shows human emotion, human lifestyle is unpredictable, and perhaps maybe it shows we need to as a society re-evaluate how we view marriage.

You also asked about an acceptable standard of measure to human emotion.....LoL you can't. This is why AI (Artificial Intelligence) like star trek is centuries away. Human emotion is too unpredictable. This is why IBM created watson to at least attempt at the possibility to measure human emotion and intelligence.

 

[Vendetta]

It was more an attempt to condense what you said in one paragraph.

Well darkness you are an eloquent writer I might add and yes forgive.my long explanations and typos

 

[Kathryn]

I mean FFS society has already allocated what women are and want. The slogan reads "diamonds are a girls best friend" women buy into it and the underlined message reads: women are materialistic." So instead of a poem on the bed or a basic sensual massage, for $5,0000 or on approved credit you can buy a wonderful platinum 5 karat diamond ring...

Not very many women I know demand a five carat diamond ring. Actually, I've NEVER known a woman who expected such a thing. And if someone can't afford to buy a ring with cash, they probably shouldn't buy it. And if they're with someone who expects that, maybe they should find someone else.

That's MY application.

I guess I'm lucky. I'm married to someone who can afford to buy me nice jewelry without having to finance it, and I get a massage TOO. But then - I'm a really good wife.

 

[Vendetta]

Not very many women I know demand a five carat diamond ring. Actually, I've NEVER known a woman who expected such a thing. And if someone can't afford to buy a ring with cash, they probably shouldn't buy it. And if they're with someone who expects that, maybe they should find someone else.

That's MY application.

I guess I'm lucky. I'm married to someone who can afford to buy me nice jewelry without having to finance it, and I get a massage TOO. But then - I'm a really good wife.

Well, you're right. Not many men can afford nice stuff and are well off and can afford it. Many navymen I know are broke. Wives left them because they're away at sea and are stuck with a mortgage.

Me? I am an attractive guy nice body, good income, intelligent, owns property. Pfft last girlfriend I had I wanted to marry she said "put a ring on it" reflecting the beyonce song......ha!

But perhaps this is a regional problem. I live in California, you in wherever, materialism is big out here but not that different elsewhere.

 

[Kathryn]

Glass pitchers have nothing to do with the argument I present on diamonds. Again you're a product of Pavlov's statement on classical conditioning. You were conditioned by the marketing companies that sale jewelry to make associations between your internal feeling, and aesthetic value. If this was solely an independent thought by you, what you just said wouldn't be common. Like I said I am not devaluing anything you enjoy. Its impossible for me anyway since you would brush me off. Here is the challenge for you: Diamonds are not forever just as people are not infinite. If you divorce what intrinsic emotional.value does the diamond carry then? A shadow of a previous love? That to me is a sad tale of entrapping ideas of emotions in a rock but the challenge for you is to answer that.

Wow, you sure are judgmental. I think diamonds are beautiful. They are also a neutral color so a diamond ring will match just about anything else I'm wearing - and for one who loves accessories, that's important. That's why I wouldn't choose a colored stone for a ring I basically never take off.

Do you really think we fell into a "Diamonds are forever?" marketing scheme, or that I truly believe "Diamonds are a girl's best friend?" or any other hogwash like that? Did it ever occur to you that some people might consider a nice stone to actually be a thing of beauty, and a good investment, and something they might pass down to a child one day?

My husband didn't buy something out of his price range - I would have thought that ridiculous and would have talked him out of it. We agreed to look for a vintage set because we wanted something that someone had worn in the past, AND because we refused to pay retail prices for a diamond ring. We both like a mixture of white and yellow gold - that's sort of our trademark when it comes to jewelry we invest in - and we found a lovely vintage set that perfectly fit the bill, and that we paid cash for on the spot - and you think you're justified in belittling something that brings us both joy by telling me that we're simply manipulated by jewelry companies?

I think that's a rather nasty, judgmental position to take. Since time immortal, men and women have given each other valuable jewelry as a token of affection and fidelity. You think there's something wrong with that? No, the ring doesn't have any magical powers - it's symbolic, that's all. But the fact that it is a valuable stone, and a valuable metal, and a significant investment, is symbolic to some people.

Perhaps not to you - and that's fine. But there are many reasons why people invest in wedding jewelry, and not all of them are frivolous or materialistic.

 

[ninerbuff]

Does anyone here consider the "human" cost of diamonds? Meaning at what cost a human sacrifices to find these diamonds so that people can wear them?

 

[Kathryn]

I wonder, do the same people who shout "Blood Diamonds!" eat eggs from the grocery store, or drive a vehicle that uses oil products, or pay their taxes which support our military, or, for that matter SERVE in our military?

My point is that a case can be made against just about any product on our shelves these days.

 

[Penumbra]

I wonder, do the same people who shout "Blood Diamonds!" eat eggs from the grocery store, or drive a vehicle that uses oil products, or pay their taxes which support our military, or, for that matter SERVE in our military?

My point is that a case can be made against just about any product on our shelves these days.

And those are good reasons to not buy diamonds that may cost human lives, or eggs that are from factory farmed chickens, and to reduce unnecessary driving and push for cleaner energy.

The answer isn't to just throw up one's hands and say that, well, a lot of products cause harm, so let's not worry about it.

 

[lunamoth]

I wonder, do the same people who shout "Blood Diamonds!" eat eggs from the grocery store, or drive a vehicle that uses oil products, or pay their taxes which support our military, or, for that matter SERVE in our military?

My point is that a case can be made against just about any product on our shelves these days.

Yeah, and they say they don't believe in original sin.

 

[Kathryn]

No one knows where my vintage diamond came from. Does anyone? My gosh, the thing has been out of the ground for at least 80 years. If I knew it came from an abusive situation, it would be a different matter altogether.

We do what we can, but if we were all purists when it came to exploitation of others for our material wealth, we'd be hoveling in a cave somewhere trying to figure out how to sew leaves together without harming anyone or anything.

 

[Penumbra]

No one knows where my vintage diamond came from. Does anyone? My gosh, the thing has been out of the ground for at least 80 years. If I knew it came from an abusive situation, it would be a different matter altogether.

Buying a vintage ring at least doesn't boost the economics of the diamond trade very much. It's not the same as buying retail.

We do what we can, but if we were all purists when it came to exploitation of others for our material wealth, we'd be hoveling in a cave somewhere trying to figure out how to sew leaves together without harming anyone or anything.

Yes, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't look for ways to do more. It's not a dichotomy.

There's a big spectrum between living in a cave and sewing leaves together, and living on the high end of a country that outmatches most other countries in terms of energy usage and product consumption.

 

[Kathryn]

"Living on the high end" also means PAYING for living on the high end - which means pumping money and tax dollars back into the economy, and working hard for that money.

Just sayin'.