Did Adam and Eve and animals have genitals before the fall?

[blü 2]

Who is the Bible God you are referring to ? The God of Abraham is around 1800 BC .. but this God is around long prior to that.

I'm referring to Yahweh. I understand the earliest archaeological evidence of his cult is from c. 1500 BCE. If you've got some from 1800 BCE I'd be interested to see it.

Gods, and supernatural beings generally, are cultural artifacts, serving as explainers, resources, and elements of tribal identity. We have no reason to think they existed before humans did, and the earliest evidence is possibly but not certainly the use of red ocher in burials from something like 75,000 ya, though human use of ocher for drawing and marking can be traced to around 250,000 ya.

 

[Sargonski]

Okay, some of my lifelong confusion from these Torah texts is starting to make sense now. It even puts more importance on the life and events of Abraham. He really had some decisions to make, didn't he?

And, it answers the question of who the Creator God was talking to when he decided to make man, with the pronouns used.

So, if I follow, and I will be digging in on my own, Abraham, under the guidance of Melchizedek, was a follower of El. But Moses was dealing with YHWH on Mt. Sinai. (Was that the same God that parted the Red Sea?) Anyway, YHWH, who gave His name as "I Am", gave the Ten Commandments, but then Jealous, a demigod equal to YHWH, jumps in to dictate the Covenant? (Exodus 34, BTW)

I probably have some things mixed up, but the primarily El is the Creator, the Almighty, and the final God to be acknowledged by the end of the Torah era? Or do the demigods continue to have a hand in the Hebrew people further into the history of the Tanaka?

Yes .. El is the God of Abraham -- known as Enlil to the Babylonians .. Abe being from Ur .. remember .. so he met EL in his homeland .. the National God of Babylon .. until Marduk takes over .. in the same way as YHWH takes over Earth .. El Ascends to Chief God in the heavens while the son's of God battle it out for Chief God status on earth. from the perspective of the 900 BC near east dweller.

Now .. you have heard of the "Sons of God" .. who hasn't .. but when we go back in time prior to Abe .. the activities of the Gods in creation of the Earth .. EL 's hand in creation is complicated .. El is viewed as the Creator of Humans .. along his brother Enki and others. .. these Gods are the "US" .. these Gods the "In OUR image"

El is head of the Divine Council. "Zedek" is the Patron God of the City of Peace -- Jerusalem . Melchi-Zedek the Canaaninte Priest King .. Priest of the God Most High .. the God of Abraham .. they share Bread and Wine and Abe Tithes 1/10th to this High priest ... Genesis 14

Zedek -- is the twin God of Justice and Righteousness .. seated at the right hand of EL at the divine council .. from which Judgement proceeds.

So we have the "Prince of Peace / Prince of the City of Peace -- the Patron God the Symbolic representation of Justice and Righeousness .. in service of the "The Father" .. Melchi-Zedek the Annointed one of God most High .. the Messiah ...

and now I must ask you to tell me the Position of Jesus in relation to "The Father" .. if not seated at the right hand .. Judge - Jury and executioner ... a Priest forever of the Order Melchi-Zedek -- Hebrews 6.

now .. what is in between ? .. the Zadokite priesthood continuese at Jerusalem from Abe ~1800 BC to Adoni-Zedek .. ~ 1000 BC when David shows up. ... but instead of installing an Aaronite Priest .. keeps the High Priest named Zedok .. who anointes King Solomon .. and in Psalm 110 David is said to be a Priest of the Order Melchi-Zedek and goes on at least until the fall of the Northern Kingdom and beyond.

 

[Sargonski]

I'm referring to Yahweh. I understand the earliest archaeological evidence of his cult is from c. 1500 BCE. If you've got some from 1800 BCE I'd be interested to see it.

Gods, and supernatural beings generally, are cultural artifacts, serving as explainers, resources, and elements of tribal identity. We have no reason to think they existed before humans did, and the earliest evidence is possibly but not certainly the use of red ocher in burials from something like 75,000 ya, though human use of ocher for drawing and marking can be traced to around 250,000 ya.

The God of Abraham is not YHWH .. and I have not offered any evidence for his cult .. however .. I believe the earliest evidence 13th century .. 12-1300 BC Yahu of the Shasu .. Shasu - Wikipedia

 

[Spice]

Yes .. El is the God of Abraham -- known as Enlil to the Babylonians .. Abe being from Ur .. remember .. so he met EL in his homeland .. the National God of Babylon .. until Marduk takes over .. in the same way as YHWH takes over Earth .. El Ascends to Chief God in the heavens while the son's of God battle it out for Chief God status on earth. from the perspective of the 900 BC near east dweller.

Now .. you have heard of the "Sons of God" .. who hasn't .. but when we go back in time prior to Abe .. the activities of the Gods in creation of the Earth .. EL 's hand in creation is complicated .. El is viewed as the Creator of Humans .. along his brother Enki and others. .. these Gods are the "US" .. these Gods the "In OUR image"

El is head of the Divine Council. "Zedek" is the Patron God of the City of Peace -- Jerusalem . Melchi-Zedek the Canaaninte Priest King .. Priest of the God Most High .. the God of Abraham .. they share Bread and Wine and Abe Tithes 1/10th to this High priest ... Genesis 14

Zedek -- is the twin God of Justice and Righteousness .. seated at the right hand of EL at the divine council .. from which Judgement proceeds.

So we have the "Prince of Peace / Prince of the City of Peace -- the Patron God the Symbolic representation of Justice and Righeousness .. in service of the "The Father" .. Melchi-Zedek the Annointed one of God most High .. the Messiah ...

and now I must ask you to tell me the Position of Jesus in relation to "The Father" .. if not seated at the right hand .. Judge - Jury and executioner ... a Priest forever of the Order Melchi-Zedek -- Hebrews 6.

now .. what is in between ? .. the Zadokite priesthood continuese at Jerusalem from Abe ~1800 BC to Adoni-Zedek .. ~ 1000 BC when David shows up. ... but instead of installing an Aaronite Priest .. keeps the High Priest named Zedok .. who anointes King Solomon .. and in Psalm 110 David is said to be a Priest of the Order Melchi-Zedek and goes on at least until the fall of the Northern Kingdom and beyond.

Now you've made no mention of believing in reincarnation, but I do, and I made the connection between Melchizedek and Jesus years ago.

The main points that have stuck me in this conversation is finding "El" to mean power -- the power needed to create. Then we have YHWH, the unspeakable that makes the sound of breath. Next is Jealous, a weakness known to man. I'm beginning to get a better understanding of polytheists, and yet I'm feeling like it's the same Source broken into relatable pieces.
My, I've stayed up far too late, but I thank you for planting this new seed of interest.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't want to argue about your beliefs nor mine either .. as this subject is not about your beliefs or mine .. but the beliefs of people in and around Israel ~ 1000 BC .. and we know what these beliefs were .. all of them believing in many Gods .. "What do you think that means" ?

It means that people in and around Israel believed in many gods at that time. It does not mean that many gods ever existed.

 

[blü 2]

The God of Abraham is not YHWH .. and I have not offered any evidence for his cult .. however .. I believe the earliest evidence 13th century .. 12-1300 BC Yahu of the Shasu .. Shasu - Wikipedia

The God of Abraham is not the god of the Tanakh? Then who is the God of Abraham?

 

[Sargonski]

The God of Abraham is not the god of the Tanakh? Then who is the God of Abraham?

Who said anything about the God of the Tanakh ? There are many Gods in the Tanakh ? The God of Abraham is the God of the Priests of the Order Melchi-Zedek .. "EL" "The Most High" El Elyon .. Head of the Divine Pantheon .. "Creator - Father" El Oliun - God Supreme .,,, Chief God of the Canaanite Religion .. of which the Hebrews partook .. being Canaanites themselves.

Least according to the Encyclopedia Brittanica "Abraham" and unanimous consensus among Biblical and theological scholarship and any divinity school worth attending

 

[Sargonski]

It means that people in and around Israel believed in many gods at that time. It does not mean that many gods ever existed.

What is this ridicuous nonsense ? .. nothing means that any Gods have ever existed friend .. including Your God. Who told you otherwise ? The fact of the matter is that Abraham believed his God existed - and his God was the Chief God of the Canaanite Pantheon .. head of the Divine Pantheon .. the Assembly of EL.

but that doesn't mean the universe is going to end tomorrow ?!

 

[blü 2]

Who said anything about the God of the Tanakh ? There are many Gods in the Tanakh ? The God of Abraham is the God of the Priests of the Order Melchi-Zedek .. "EL" "The Most High" El Elyon .. Head of the Divine Pantheon .. "Creator - Father" El Oliun - God Supreme .,,, Chief God of the Canaanite Religion .. of which the Hebrews partook .. being Canaanites themselves.

Least according to the Encyclopedia Brittanica "Abraham" and unanimous consensus among Biblical and theological scholarship and any divinity school worth attending

Ah, but by the time of Isaiah, around the end of the Babylonian Captivity, God has shucked [his] henotheist status from the Torah &c, and has become the sole god. Later [he]'s split into the Jewish and the Christian version, the latter renouncing the Covenant, becoming triune in the 4th century CE, presiding over 2000 years or so of Christian antisemitism, beginning with the gospel of John, of course, altering [his] views on slavery, divorce and beginning to change [his] approach to homosexuality and gender questions. Not that one can blame a god for changing of course ─ a god without a congregation is a dead god.

 

[Sargonski]

Now you've made no mention of believing in reincarnation, but I do, and I made the connection between Melchizedek and Jesus years ago.

The main points that have stuck me in this conversation is finding "El" to mean power -- the power needed to create. Then we have YHWH, the unspeakable that makes the sound of breath. Next is Jealous, a weakness known to man. I'm beginning to get a better understanding of polytheists, and yet I'm feeling like it's the same Source broken into relatable pieces.
My, I've stayed up far too late, but I thank you for planting this new seed of interest.

"Me Too" !! believe in reincarnation that is .. and I claim that anyone who believes in "heaven" - "life after death" believes in reincarnation .. as what is the point otherwise ? Right .. and all this is after having an NDE and meeting "The Presence" .. well .. if you could call it that .. just got asked one question .. "You want to stay here or go back" .. and that was that in a nutshell.

But regardless .. back to proving reincarnation believers in the afterlife For example - when you arive through the pearly gates .. what song is playing to announce you? .. and who are all the people come to greet you back .. now that you remember the past there are many who you do not remember now .. and after you relax .. and get used to being in Heaven .. what next ? as in heaven you can do anything you want .. "well Almost but we get to that later" there are no rules per/say .. otherwise it would not be heaven now would it ? .. but OK .. the first rule they will teach you is about how often and when you need to worship "the Most High" ...

Right ! .... and what do you think that number is .. 5 times a day like Islam ? ... do we up it to double that for heaven 10 times a day ? or how about infinite praise .. where thats all you do there .. all day long .. every day .. for infinity. Which brings us to Rule number 1

Rule #1 -- Absolutely and under no circumstances .. will anyone blow smoke up the old man's arse. .. NO .. Nada .. don't even think it.. groveling pitiful wast of essence . You see .. after the first TRillion Years .. every entity .. doing nothing but praising and blowing smoke 24 hours a day 365 days a year ... for a TRillion years .. Got really boring .. to the point of causing physical pain to His Royal Arse .. and so the practice is banned ..

So Look .. if you see Jah - Rastafa he will likely be wandering about in sandals smoking that corn cob pipe full of Holy Hash .. Just be cool .. and if it is HeyZeus .. who be looking like some hippy out of a 60's love in .. just say "What it is" .. and if you lucky will get some wise words.

Rule #2 --- the one you have been waiting for... as relating to re-incarnation. "The Blue Pill"

So once you get to your room .. and are relaxing at one of Heaven's way stations .. there are millions of channels on the Television --millions of worlds to watch.. like reality TV .. but its Reality .. and from these worlds .. you will select your next vacation spot ... at the same time making your next move in a grand cosmic game of chess ..

When you get travel agent .. after consulting with Ha Satan -- the "Tester of Souls" on Earth is now the Consierge in Heaven .. a "Woman of Wealth and Taste" -- and yes this is a name that tune moment

KK .. are you with me .. ready for your next vacation -- you will be told to lie down ... and given a blue pill .. and when you wake up .. you will be on vacation .. your soul will have entered the fleshy abode that awaited and had the ability to capacitate the "I AM" .. and yes .. this is another Name that tune moment - Monty Python's Philosopher song. "I Drink therefor I AM""

You open up your eyes ands "I AM" are aware of your existence .. except for one thing .. Rule number 2 say that while on Vacation you will not remember your past existence .. sans the flash here and there but that is another thing ..

Now .. the reason for this Game Rule becomes evident on consideration that the Game would cease to function were this not a rule .. The cosmic game would end .. "life is but a dream" no longer.

why why why ? because if the other players in the game realized they could just exit at any time ... and be warped back to the start like in a video game .. then that is what they would do .. and the game would cease to function .. folks would be randomly popping out of existence .. anytime something in the game when against them .. .. The Game ceases to function .. without such a rule .. think about it .. no such thing as Divorce .. if one party wants to leave .. Poof .. gone -- someone called your kid a name at school .. **** it .. poof .. heh heh heh

 

[Sargonski]

Ah, but by the time of Isaiah, around the end of the Babylonian Captivity, God has shucked [his] henotheist status from the Torah &c, and has become the sole god. Later [he]'s split into the Jewish and the Christian version, the latter renouncing the Covenant, becoming triune in the 4th century CE, presiding over 2000 years or so of Christian antisemitism, beginning with the gospel of John, of course, altering [his] views on slavery, divorce and beginning to change [his] approach to homosexuality and gender questions. Not that one can blame a god for changing of course ─ a god without a congregation is a dead god.

Hmmm .. OK .. but how is the move into Monotheism .. after the fall of Israel related to anything I said .. all being related to prior to the fall ~ 720BC when the Assyrians come to town .. you have failed to related anything you have said to our previous conversation .. the identity of the God of Abraham .. Israelite Religion and so on .. warping onto a differnt page.. chapter and verse.

in any case .. the move to strict monotheism doesn't really happen until the days of Persia ... who then redacted the stuff written during the babylonian captivity .. hence why we have so many remnents of Polytheism retained.

You have to understand that when the temple was destroyed .. YHWH died .. "the place where his name resides" -- destroyed This is the whole deal behind the one temple business -- this is the official Residence of YHWH at this time .. and the last residene ... his many other homes having been destroyed when the northern Kingdom was destroyed .. and city in the southern Kingdom but Jerusalem ..

When the House of YHWH in Jerusalem was burned to the ground .. YHWH was in the House .. cremated .. destroyed by the great God Marduk.

It is when the Persians arive .. who allow all the peoples unde them to maintain their culture and Religion - and even encourage this .. just pay your taxes and they leave you alone .. King Cyrus is what to the Jewish People ? "The Annointed One of God" -- aka "Messiah" same as David before him..

except .. 1) who is the God doing the annointing of King Cyrus ? 2) who was the God doing the Annointing of King Solomon .. and King David later on.

 

[Spice]

"Me Too" !! believe in reincarnation that is .. and I claim that anyone who believes in "heaven" - "life after death" believes in reincarnation .. as what is the point otherwise ? Right .. and all this is after having an NDE and meeting "The Presence" .. well .. if you could call it that .. just got asked one question .. "You want to stay here or go back" .. and that was that in a nutshell.

But regardless .. back to proving reincarnation believers in the afterlife For example - when you arive through the pearly gates .. what song is playing to announce you? .. and who are all the people come to greet you back .. now that you remember the past there are many who you do not remember now .. and after you relax .. and get used to being in Heaven .. what next ? as in heaven you can do anything you want .. "well Almost but we get to that later" there are no rules per/say .. otherwise it would not be heaven now would it ? .. but OK .. the first rule they will teach you is about how often and when you need to worship "the Most High" ...

Right ! .... and what do you think that number is .. 5 times a day like Islam ? ... do we up it to double that for heaven 10 times a day ? or how about infinite praise .. where thats all you do there .. all day long .. every day .. for infinity. Which brings us to Rule number 1

Rule #1 -- Absolutely and under no circumstances .. will anyone blow smoke up the old man's arse. .. NO .. Nada .. don't even think it.. groveling pitiful wast of essence . You see .. after the first TRillion Years .. every entity .. doing nothing but praising and blowing smoke 24 hours a day 365 days a year ... for a TRillion years .. Got really boring .. to the point of causing physical pain to His Royal Arse .. and so the practice is banned ..

So Look .. if you see Jah - Rastafa he will likely be wandering about in sandals smoking that corn cob pipe full of Holy Hash .. Just be cool .. and if it is HeyZeus .. who be looking like some hippy out of a 60's love in .. just say "What it is" .. and if you lucky will get some wise words.

Rule #2 --- the one you have been waiting for... as relating to re-incarnation. "The Blue Pill"

So once you get to your room .. and are relaxing at one of Heaven's way stations .. there are millions of channels on the Television --millions of worlds to watch.. like reality TV .. but its Reality .. and from these worlds .. you will select your next vacation spot ... at the same time making your next move in a grand cosmic game of chess ..

When you get travel agent .. after consulting with Ha Satan -- the "Tester of Souls" on Earth is now the Consierge in Heaven .. a "Woman of Wealth and Taste" -- and yes this is a name that tune moment

KK .. are you with me .. ready for your next vacation -- you will be told to lie down ... and given a blue pill .. and when you wake up .. you will be on vacation .. your soul will have entered the fleshy abode that awaited and had the ability to capacitate the "I AM" .. and yes .. this is another Name that tune moment - Monty Python's Philosopher song. "I Drink therefor I AM""

You open up your eyes ands "I AM" are aware of your existence .. except for one thing .. Rule number 2 say that while on Vacation you will not remember your past existence .. sans the flash here and there but that is another thing ..

Now .. the reason for this Game Rule becomes evident on consideration that the Game would cease to function were this not a rule .. The cosmic game would end .. "life is but a dream" no longer.

why why why ? because if the other players in the game realized they could just exit at any time ... and be warped back to the start like in a video game .. then that is what they would do .. and the game would cease to function .. folks would be randomly popping out of existence .. anytime something in the game when against them .. .. The Game ceases to function .. without such a rule .. think about it .. no such thing as Divorce .. if one party wants to leave .. Poof .. gone -- someone called your kid a name at school .. **** it .. poof .. heh heh heh

I like! I needed a good chuckle and you provided.

My "vision" of how it might work is more in relation to karma and growing towards perfection. In my vision, while in heaven you will not only remember everything from the previous life, you will "feel" the effect of everything you did in that life, good and bad. Then you'll be offered the opportunity to live again and pay penance and improve your current level (of joy and pain that you've sown), or accept this taste of heaven, as is, for eternity. Not so much fun as your vision, but the blunt could be helpful for the first several visits! Especially while Satan is making notes on what you owe in the next installment. LOL

 

[Sargonski]

I like! I needed a good chuckle and you provided.

My "vision" of how it might work is more in relation to karma and growing towards perfection. In my vision, while in heaven you will not only remember everything from the previous life, you will "feel" the effect of everything you did in that life, good and bad. Then you'll be offered the opportunity to live again and pay penance and improve your current level (of joy and pain that you've sown), or accept this taste of heaven, as is, for eternity. Not so much fun as your vision, but the blunt could be helpful for the first several visits! Especially while Satan is making notes on what you owe in the next installment. LOL

Yes .. exactly as implied by "making moves on the galactic chessboard" each life your progress .. go back .. or stay the same .. or "Other" just to leave an unexpected option open .. in this Game Karma .. is like points as the Antient Egyptian concept of "Ma at" .. like karma .. your deeds are weighed on the Scales of Justice at the end of days .. if too light .. you do not progress .. fed to a monster .. and that is the end of the game for you .. in Egyptian Cosmology .. unless of course you were somehow resurrected .. like Osirus ... These are expressions of the Cosmic Godhead through time .. "signposts" -- Go here ! heh heh.. the Golden Rule an example .. keeps showing up everywhere .. Jesus say of this Rule learned on the knee of the Great Rabbi Hillel Don't do to others what you hate .... the rest is all commentary .. now Go and Learn .. the summation of the Torah while standing on one foot. - True Story

Jesus says the same -- " Don't do to others what you don't want done to you --- " which of course we are all failiar in both positive and negative variety .. but what you forgot about my favorite Bible Verse .. Matt 7:12 -- is the part that comes after .. "This sums up the Law and the Prophets" . KK this is all the information we need from this one .. right ! Simple - although more scripture may be helpfull in better understanding the application of said rule .. by the blessed lord and Savior -- Let ye who be wit no sin cast first Rock, Log out of own eye , Love neighbor as self .. Give to Ceasar what be his and the one made famous in the marked for death .. Voodoo Lord of a Steven Segal movie .. a messianic figure of sorts .. "If a man commit a crime against you --- he must be paid back -- 1000 times " !!

The Rod of Correction ..

 

[blü 2]

Hmmm .. OK .. but how is the move into Monotheism .. after the fall of Israel related to anything I said .. all being related to prior to the fall ~ 720BC when the Assyrians come to town .. you have failed to related anything you have said to our previous conversation .. the identity of the God of Abraham .. Israelite Religion and so on .. warping onto a differnt page.. chapter and verse.

in any case .. the move to strict monotheism doesn't really happen until the days of Persia ... who then redacted the stuff written during the babylonian captivity .. hence why we have so many remnents of Polytheism retained.

You have to understand that when the temple was destroyed .. YHWH died .. "the place where his name resides" -- destroyed This is the whole deal behind the one temple business -- this is the official Residence of YHWH at this time .. and the last residene ... his many other homes having been destroyed when the northern Kingdom was destroyed .. and city in the southern Kingdom but Jerusalem ..

When the House of YHWH in Jerusalem was burned to the ground .. YHWH was in the House .. cremated .. destroyed by the great God Marduk.

It is when the Persians arive .. who allow all the peoples unde them to maintain their culture and Religion - and even encourage this .. just pay your taxes and they leave you alone .. King Cyrus is what to the Jewish People ? "The Annointed One of God" -- aka "Messiah" same as David before him..

except .. 1) who is the God doing the annointing of King Cyrus ? 2) who was the God doing the Annointing of King Solomon .. and King David later on.

I'm still trying to grasp which version of God in the bible is in your view the God of Abraham, since as far as I can see it's simply the one god evolving in various ways in the hands of [his] various cults.

 

[Sargonski]

I'm still trying to grasp which version of God in the bible is in your view the God of Abraham, since as far as I can see it's simply the one god evolving in various ways in the hands of [his] various cults.

why have you not answered the simple questions put forth .. and why are you grasping at strawman fallacy .. my version of God is irrelevant to the conversation .. but thanks for coming up with one for me .. from where I do not know since I have given none

What I have discussed is not "my view" .. but the view of the 10th century BC individual . or 1800 BC individual ..

The question you have put .. asked properly .. is not who do I think Abe's God is .. but who does Abe think his God his .. or Melchi-Zedek .. who does the fellow reading this story in 1800 BC think is the God being worshiped ? Who does King David think the God of Abraham was in the story now 800 years ancient .. ?

and the answer to this question is the God Supreme .. God Most High .. of the Canaanite Pantheon .. whome everyone immediately recognizes as EL .. but who none recognize as the same God as YHWH .. NOooooooo hence the Golden Calf Episode according to the Bible story .. from perspective King David .. YHWH is one of the Son's of EL .. the National God of Israel but YHWH and EL are two completely different Gods .. David and everyone else not only believing in many Gods but worshiping them .. the YHWH cult for example was polytheistic ..

Now .. It is true that YHWH does take on some of the Characteristics of EL and Titles .. but that is because the "Son of God" usurps the position of chief God on Earth from EL.. taking his position however, EL remains Chief God in the Heavens.. .. lack of understanding this part of the story a source of much textual confusion .. specially for monotheists .. but they do not exist at this part of the story .. so we need not worry what monotheists think.

Every City .. and/or Nation was represented by one of the "Sons of God" who battle for supremacy .. the winner becomming Chief God on Earth.. Israel's champion was YHWH .. the Champion of Babylon had Marduk .. each city state "Mobabite - Ammonite - Edomite - Hittite - ..on and on .. had their own Champion in the Battle .. one of these battles is recorded on the Moabite Stone .. by the Moabites .... and we also have the Biblical version of this same battle .. both tell us the same story .. Chemosh .. the Moabite Champion defeats YHWH in this battle .. but the war is not lost .. YHWH eventually prevails ..

These are the Gods of the Israelites .. the cult of YHWH was polytheism .. YHWH was worshiped alongside Asherah -- queen of heaven .. and Anat .. their lovely but rather frightening daughter. .. a holy Trinity Father - Mother - Daughter .. in the one room they are burning Hash .. the other section you can take part in a male or female temple prostitute of your choice....

Where are you finding "One God only" in this story ? and answer the previous question .. who is the God who annoints Cyrus .. so as to help you answer one of your previous false assumptions. ..

 

[blü 2]

my version of God is irrelevant to the conversation ..

My question was, in the Tanakh, who in your view is the "god of Abraham" whom you (not I) mentioned.

I take it your answer is El.

David and everyone else not only believing in many Gods but worshiping them .. the YHWH cult for example was polytheistic ..

Yes, there are various mentions of the reality of other gods in the Tanakh, but as I said, that phase of the bible god's existence is over by the time Isaiah is written ie apparently by the end of the Babylonian captivity.

Where are you finding "One God only" in this story ? and answer the previous question .. who is the God who annoints Cyrus .. so as to help you answer one of your previous false assumptions. ..

If you want to know which divinity appointed Cyrus, ask Cyrus. It's not a question that presently concerns me.

My concern, as I said, is in following the evolution of the bible God from henotheistic to monotheistic to Christian to triune to Western / Eastern to Catholic / Protestant and so on and so on, noting incidentally the appearance of Jesus in the Mormon and the Rasta cults, and no doubt others.

 

[Sargonski]

My question was, in the Tanakh, who in your view is the "god of Abraham" whom you (not I) mentioned.

I take it your answer is El.


Yes, there are various mentions of the reality of other gods in the Tanakh, but as I said, that phase of the bible god's existence is over by the time Isaiah is written ie apparently by the end of the Babylonian captivity.


If you want to know which divinity appointed Cyrus, ask Cyrus. It's not a question that presently concerns me.

My concern, as I said, is in following the evolution of the bible God from henotheistic to monotheistic to Christian to triune to Western / Eastern to Catholic / Protestant and so on and so on, noting incidentally the appearance of Jesus in the Mormon and the Rasta cults, and no doubt others.

Mentioned EL many many times already .. glad you understand ..

What you yet fail to understand is the evolution from henotheism to monotheism .. The answer to which is found in the understanding of the God who annointed Cyrus. hence why I keep asking you that question .

Isaiah has 2 or 3 authors the first is pre temple destructo the other post. Up until the death of YHWH .. there is no monotheism in the YHwH cult .. and the leanings which do exist .. getting rid of the other Gods .. doesn't happen until the very end according to the redacted story .. never mind the actual story .

Monotheism does not exist until Judaism exists .. and this Religion forms under Persian influence .. Lord YHWH is Dead .. and has been for 5 decades when Persia takes over .. Jewish Culture is allowed to resume .. and even thrive .. especially religious autonomy .. during this time Judaism is created .. and with it a completely new God .. a God who the Jews claim annointed Cyrus .. and so was hoping you could tell me who this God might be .. why this God is named after a Car .. and why this matters to Monotheism

 

[blü 2]

Mentioned EL many many times already .. glad you understand ..

What you yet fail to understand is the evolution from henotheism to monotheism .. The answer to which is found in the understanding of the God who annointed Cyrus. hence why I keep asking you that question .

Isaiah has 2 or 3 authors the first is pre temple destructo the other post. Up until the death of YHWH .. there is no monotheism in the YHwH cult .. and the leanings which do exist .. getting rid of the other Gods .. doesn't happen until the very end according to the redacted story .. never mind the actual story .

Monotheism does not exist until Judaism exists .. and this Religion forms under Persian influence .. Lord YHWH is Dead .. and has been for 5 decades when Persia takes over .. Jewish Culture is allowed to resume .. and even thrive .. especially religious autonomy .. during this time Judaism is created .. and with it a completely new God .. a God who the Jews claim annointed Cyrus .. and so was hoping you could tell me who this God might be .. why this God is named after a Car .. and why this matters to Monotheism

A god named Car? Maybach? Honqi? Not Morris, surely?

 

[Spice]

Mentioned EL many many times already .. glad you understand ..

What you yet fail to understand is the evolution from henotheism to monotheism .. The answer to which is found in the understanding of the God who annointed Cyrus. hence why I keep asking you that question .

Isaiah has 2 or 3 authors the first is pre temple destructo the other post. Up until the death of YHWH .. there is no monotheism in the YHwH cult .. and the leanings which do exist .. getting rid of the other Gods .. doesn't happen until the very end according to the redacted story .. never mind the actual story .

Monotheism does not exist until Judaism exists .. and this Religion forms under Persian influence .. Lord YHWH is Dead .. and has been for 5 decades when Persia takes over .. Jewish Culture is allowed to resume .. and even thrive .. especially religious autonomy .. during this time Judaism is created .. and with it a completely new God .. a God who the Jews claim annointed Cyrus .. and so was hoping you could tell me who this God might be .. why this God is named after a Car .. and why this matters to Monotheism

Mercedes? Latin for mercy?

 

[Sargonski]

A god named Car? Maybach? Honqi? Not Morris, surely?

No Blu -- not a God named car .. big fail on the reading comprehension part of the game .. "Named After a Car" -- does not mean the name of the God is "Car" Its a clue blu .. but apparently not well suited to those who have no clue what the post they are responding to says

Mercedes? Latin for mercy?

See blu ! .. excellent answer .. clear understanding of the clue .. "Named after a Car" .. and indeed Mercedes is a car .. that also has a very interesting meaning behind it which could feasibly relate to one of the main teachings of our Lord and Savior ... a fantastic and well thought out guess .. which really should be the correct answer it was so good .. but, the car in question is Mazda .. the God in Question Ahura Mazda .. The Primordial Uncreated one ... the NON - Anthropomorphic God .. without sex .. The most high God of the State religion of Persia .. Zoroastrianism .. the first "" Monotheistic"" religion predating Akenaten which does not really count given its short lifespan.

What you may find interesting about this God is that although this is "One God" .. it is a twin .. one side the demiurge - Chaos/ Bad-Evil the other side Order/Good .. so kind of a form of diesm .. but a true move away from polytheism .. killing off all the other Gods.. all who are anthropomorphic .. can have direct interactiosn with humans .. this God no .. this is the first etherial primordial uncreated - ghost way in the back of the machine God ..

And it is these ideas of God .. which are adopted in to the God of this new religion called Judaism .. created after the death of YHWH .. and this God is not the Resurrected YHWH .. which I used to think was how the fusion happened but now am going away from that idea based on the religious practices of the Elephantine Jews .. and their Temple of YHWH .. who is worshiped beside Asherah and Anat in a Holy Trinity .. Father -Mother-Daughter. this was the church set up by the Jews who moved from Israel down to Egypt and provided service to the Pharoah as Mercinaries .. based out of the Island of Elephantine .. these were Jews who left prior to the Babylonian destruction of Jerusalem .. Israel was allied with Egypt around that time .. this giving us a fantastic example of how YHWH was Worshiped alongside other Gods even at this late date .. and this goes on until ~400 BC when these Jews are wanting to rebuild their temple after it got destroyed send letters to the Jerusalem Jews and the Samarian Jews . .. letters which we have .. fascinating stuff.

So .. moral of story -- YHWH Dies -- and with it the Cult of YHWH --- all the Jews in high places - political leaders, clergy, skilled trades people, scribes ... -transported to Babylon and elsewhere in the empire . the farmers and the lower classes remain - who are still polytheistic as can be .. in particular the Queen of Heaven .. living under the Babylonians for 60 years .. 3 generations .. maintaining traditional worship and belief in many Gods less the God named YHWH who is dead -- perhaps saying a prayer or two for the dead God from time to time.

The Persians arrive and some of the children of the folks who were deported come back. Some 20 years later the temple is rebuilt -- now 4 generations on ... and a new religion Judaism is now in its infancy .. the King Cyrus "The Messiah"" .. the Annointed one of God has allowed the Jews .. and every other people in the realm .. to maintain national identity and religion and culture. .. and given a fair degree of autonomy.

and so to the question once again .... who is the annointed one of God .. who is the God living in the new Temple ? --- keeping in mind it is at this time where the God Judaism loses his name .. ?! .. this is for a reason children .. the cleargy facing the same problem you are facing right now .. YHWH has Died .. the new God .. is completely different from the Old God .. and bears a huge resemblance to Ahura Mazda .. and Cyrus is said to be the annointed one of this God .. which would make sense given that this is the God of the State Religion of Persia... a monotheistic religion .. with a really mean devil character .. later adopted by Pauline Christianity .. a different fellow from the "Ha Satan" of Job .. lest we confuse the two.