Did Christ really exist ?

[IndigoChild5559]

People who believe in God strive not to lie and steal but when you are human accidents happen.

I stand by what Deuteronomy said, which I quoted.

 

[Arthur P. Dent]

If there once was a preacher named Yeshua ben Jussuf in Judea around the year 30 AD who didn't perform miracles, was that really Jesus?

Like "god". it would depend on how you define Jesus. Some theists just feel he was a really good man, yadda yadda yadda, while others feel he was the incarnation of god and performing miracle left and right. My point was that even if you concede the fact that the historical "Jesus" existed, it does nothing to further the claim that he performed miracles so in all essence, it's a moot point. There are those who will believe what they want to believe despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary as demonstrated by your next ridiculous claim...

His personal integrity and moral was exemplary and he was the 45th president of the United States.

 

[paarsurrey]

Christ is a title, but Jesus is rightfully "the" Christ. And Jesus was given all authority. By God, his Father. And the Bible says he will give all authority back TO God, his Father, after everything is made in subjection to him. 1 Corinthians 15 explains this:
"Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority, and power. 25 For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God has put everything under His feet.” Now when it says that everything has been put under Him, this clearly does not include the One who put everything under Him. 28 And when all things have been subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will be made subject to Him who put all things under Him, so that God may be all in all."
I hope you will read the following, it is very helpful in looking at the Bible well.
https://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/believe-in-jesus/

" And Jesus was given all authority. By God"

Well, I believe Jesus- the man, existed not because history tell me this but because Quran tells me this. Should I continue this Jesus existed or should I deny Jesus, please?

As for the sentence in magenta please tell me the Christian Methodology to discern right from the wrong so that I may employ it to find the correctness of it, please? And mind it, Jesus was Jew and his mother was also a Jew. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Skywalker]

Like the Professor explains if you bothered to learn something about your own religion, is during the Persian period the Judahite religion was pushing for a more monotheistic version, similar to the Persian model. SO the Israelites who worshiped Ashera were eventually pushed out and it became a monolatric religion. The point is we can see how the culture moved from Canaanite to Israelite while borrowing other myths along the way.

The Bible mentions that the Israelites worshiped Ashera. It doesn't condone Ashera worship. Correlation doesn't equal causation. The Bible talks about the Jews walking away from God. Its a coincidence that they walked back to worshiping the one true God during the Persian period. Zoroastrianism isn't really monotheistic, because they believe in Angra Mainyu. Its also a coincidence that the Zoroastrians were monotheistic because truth and lies are often mixed.

 

[Skywalker]

You are just making stuff up. All these cultures had Gods who's purpose was to teach how to live. They are still made-up myths.
These concepts are all over Eastern religions. You clearly don't know anything about these other ancient religions and are making assumptions.
Lord Krishna teaches us how to live:
15 Amazing Teaching of Lord Krishna

The Purpose of Life is God/Truth:
We may run all over the place chasing after sense-objects and be consumed in the world of desires and ego, but the sooner we realize that the only true purpose to life is God, the better chance we have to be free of suffering and torment
True Meaning of Renunciation:
As Krishna explains, that sitting in a cave without any possessions, but nevertheless burning with desire is not renunciation. Being untouched by desire is true renunciation.

Desires Come and Go:
Desires come and go, but you remain a dispassionate witness, simply watching and enjoying the show.This does not mean you do not act. The Gita is all about Karma Yoga, or the Yoga of Action, and in another chapter I will go into that as well.

Devotion to the Supreme:
In much of the Bhagavad Gita Krishna indicates that doing all with the Supreme in mind, is the path to salvation. This is another way to be free of the ego and pride. To devote all that you do to God, and remember that it is Him doing everything and that you are just a channel. Forgetting God and doing things, leads to focusing on results and the ego, which only strengthen the bonds of delusion and suffering.

and so on...

Although Jesus was not actually teaching anything new. The Jesus character is a re-working of Jewish wisdom.
Note, Rabbi Hillell from before Jesus was born:

The Golden Rule
The comparative response to the challenge of a prospective convert who asked that the Torah be explained to him while he stood on one foot, illustrates the character differences between Shammai and Hillel. Shammai dismissed the man. Hillel gently chastised the man, saying: "What is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow: this is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."
Love of peace
The exhortation to love peace emanated from Hillel's most characteristic traits—from that proverbial meekness and mildness—as in the saying: "Let a man be always humble and patient like Hillel, and not passionate like Shammai".[20] Hillel's gentleness and patience are illustrated in an anecdote that describes how two men made a bet on the question of whether Hillel could be made angry. Though they questioned him and made insulting allusions to his Babylonian origin, they were unsuccessful.[20]


Obligations to self and others
From the doctrine of man's likeness to God, Hillel deduced man's duty to care for his own body. According to Midrash Leviticus rabbah he said "As in a theater and circus the statues of the king must be kept clean by him to whom they have been entrusted, so the bathing of the body is a duty of man, who was created in the image of the almighty King of the world." In this work, Hillel calls his soul a guest upon earth, toward which he must fulfill the duties of charity.
Other maxims

• "Don't trust yourself until the day you die".[24]

• "Do not judge your fellow until you are in his place."[24]

• "Whosoever destroys one soul, it is as though he had destroyed the entire world. And whosoever saves a life, it is as though he had saved the entire world."[25]

• "A name gained is a name lost."[26]

• "Where there are no men, strive to be a man!"[27]

"My humiliation is my exaltation; my exaltation is my humiliation.
Hillel the Elder - Wikipedia

The sayings of Christ have the ring of truth to most people and Jesus is known as the greatest moral teacher that the world has ever known. Buddha and Krishna said truth about materialism because even truth and lies are mixed. You dont need Buddha and Krishna to know that you dont need materialism.

 

[Skywalker]

Another gem. None of the bible is historical writings.



Archeology of the Hebrew Bible
Yet many people want to know whether the events of the Bible are real, historic events.
We want to make the Bible history. Many people think it has to be history or nothing. But there is no word for history in the Hebrew Bible. In other words, what did the biblical writers think they were doing? Writing objective history? No. That's a modern discipline. They were telling stories. They wanted you to know what these purported events mean.

The Bible is didactic literature; it wants to teach, not just to describe. We try to make the Bible something it is not, and that's doing an injustice to the biblical writers.

Jesus and the Apostle Paul are historical figures. Unlike other faiths, Christianity is based off of real historical events. Just because the Bible teaches doesn't mean that it also doesn't describe.

More Proof The Bible Is True – 2,600-Year Old Clay Seal Of Royal Steward Discovered In Israel

In just the latest of many exciting discovering in the sands of Israel, archeologists unearthed a 7th century clay seal in the City of David. The seal bears the phrase “Adoniyahu Asher Al Habayit,” signifying that the man was a royal steward and was named Adoniyahu, which means “My Lord is Yahweh” and serves yet another stunning proof of the accuracy of the Bible.

A SERVANT OF A KING – AN AMAZING DISCOVERY

The sifting project in the City of David is bringing Biblical truth to life.
According to reports:

“A minute stamp seal from 2,600 years ago bearing the name of King David’s son was recently found in an excavation site in Jerusalem, the City of David Foundation announced Sunday in a press release.

The seal, believed to be used by the highest ranking ministers in ancient Jerusalem to sign documents, bears the Hebrew name and title, “Adoniyahu by appointment of the house,” (“Asher Al Habayit”) and appears numerous times in the Bible under different kings in each of the ancient kingdoms of Judah and Israel.

The phrase appears for the first time on the list of ministers of King Solomon, the Foundation said.

“This tiny stamp seal has immense meaning to billions of people worldwide,” said Doron Spielman, Vice-President of the City of David Foundation.

The personal signet dates back to the era of Solomon’s Temple in the 7th century BCE and “is another link in the long chain of Jewish history in Jerusalem that is being uncovered and preserved at the City of David on a daily basis,” Speilman added.” (source).

A SPECIAL NAME IN THE BIBLE
Adoniyahu (spelled Adonijah in English) is a name that appears several times in Scripture. Adonijah was the name of King David’s fourth son as detailed in 2 Samuel 3. He would later try to proclaim himself king prompting King David to have Solomon anointed as King in the waters of the Gihon spring in the City of David (Solomon ultimately forgave his brother for trying to usurp the throne).

Centuries later, King Jehoshaphat would initiate a spiritual revival in the southern kingdom of Judah. He destroyed the places of occult worship and sent out his princes and wise men of the priesthood to teach the people God’s Word. And it is there we see the second reference to an Adonijah in Scripture:

“Therefore the Lord stablished the kingdom in his hand; and all Judah brought to Jehoshaphat presents; and he had riches and honour in abundance. And his heart was lifted up in the ways of the Lord: moreover he took away the high places and groves out of Judah. Also in the third year of his reign he sent to his princes, even to Benhail, and to Obadiah, and to Zechariah, and to Nethaneel, and to Michaiah, to teach in the cities of Judah.

And with them he sent Levites, even Shemaiah, and Nethaniah, and Zebadiah, and Asahel, and Shemiramoth, and Jehonathan, and Adonijah, and Tobijah, and Tobadonijah, Levites; and with them Elishama and Jehoram, priests. And they taught in Judah, and had the book of the law of the Lord with them, and went about throughout all the cities of Judah, and taught the people. And the fear of the Lord fell upon all the kingdoms of the lands that were round about Judah, so that they made no war against Jehoshaphat.” – 2 Chronicles 17:5-10

A final reference to the name is found in Nehemiah chapter 10. When the Israelites returned from captivity in Babylon in approximately 510 BC, a number of men made a covenant to serve God in renewed hope and faith. Among them was a man named Adonijah (Nehemiah 10:16).

Even the title found on the seal holds significance:

‘The seal, believed to be used by the highest ranking ministers in ancient Jerusalem to sign documents, bears the Hebrew name and title, “Adoniyahu by appointment of the house,” (“Asher Al Habayit”) and appears numerous times in the Bible under different kings in each of the ancient kingdoms of Judah and Israel.” (source).

 

[YoursTrue]

" And Jesus was given all authority. By God"

Well, I believe Jesus- the man, existed not because history tell me this but because Quran tells me this. Should I continue this Jesus existed or should I deny Jesus, please?

As for the sentence in magenta please tell me the Christian Methodology to discern right from the wrong so that I may employ it to find the correctness of it, please? And mind it, Jesus was Jew and his mother was also a Jew. Right, please?

Regards

The thing is, you really have to figure which angel is telling the truth. We know that at the beginning, the serpent approached Eve. She did not know it was really Satan using a serpent, and she believed it. Later in the Bible (many years later) we learn that the serpent was Satan the devil in disguise. He seduced Eve by causing her to believe that she would not die if she disobeyed God. As far as Jesus having been given all authority by God, let me start with this point: various areas have different religions. This has far-reaching consequences. But Jesus said the good news of God's kingdom would be preached in all the inhabited earth.
Yes, Jesus was a Jew. So was Mary. And Mary's husband, Joseph, was also a Jew. His brothers were Jews. The word Jew comes from Judah, it is an expression used to encompass those claiming affiliation with the nation of Israel by means of birthright or conversion to Judaism.
But notice 1 Timothy 2:14 which speaks of Eve's having been deceived by the serpent:
"Also, Adam was not deceived, but the woman was thoroughly deceived and became a transgressor."

 

[YoursTrue]

" And Jesus was given all authority. By God"

Well, I believe Jesus- the man, existed not because history tell me this but because Quran tells me this. Should I continue this Jesus existed or should I deny Jesus, please?

As for the sentence in magenta please tell me the Christian Methodology to discern right from the wrong so that I may employ it to find the correctness of it, please? And mind it, Jesus was Jew and his mother was also a Jew. Right, please?

Regards

Going back to the angel that spoke to Eve, she believed him. And because of that, and Adam's acceptance of the fruit Eve gave him, we suffer the consequences of their disobedience.

 

[YoursTrue]

I stand by what Deuteronomy said, which I quoted.

Yes, but do you believe God was in or with Hitler? Just wondering what you believe about that. Thank you.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If there once was a preacher named Yeshua ben Jussuf in Judea around the year 30 AD who didn't perform miracles, was that really Jesus?

Jussuf? Where do you get this spelling from? It's not Hebrew. Hebrew has no J.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, but do you believe God was in or with Hitler? Just wondering what you believe about that. Thank you.

I'm Jewish and you are actually asking me if I think God was with Hitler?

 

[Heyo]

Jussuf? Where do you get this spelling from? It's not Hebrew. Hebrew has no J.

And neither have Greek or Latin. A slip of the mind as we write "J" so often were it fits our pronunciation; Ivlivs, Iesos, Ivdea. The only time we get it right is in the cross titulus INRI.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If there once was a preacher named Yeshua ben Jussuf in Judea around the year 30 AD who ...

Jussuf? Where do you get this spelling from? It's not Hebrew. Hebrew has no J.

And neither have Greek or Latin. A slip of the mind as we write "J" so often were it fits our pronunciation; Ivlivs, Iesos, Ivdea. The only time we get it right is in the cross titulus INRI.

You're trying too hard unless, of course, you're trying to introduce a bastardized spelling of of an Islamic spelling of a Latin/Greek spelling of a Hebrew name. Perhaps you should just read this and then stick with "Joseph". It may be less impressive, but, on the other hand, it's also potentially less embarrassing.

 

[Heyo]

You're trying too hard unless, of course, you're trying to introduce a bastardized spelling of of an Islamic spelling of a Latin/Greek spelling of a Hebrew name. Perhaps you should just read this and then stick with "Joseph". It may be less impressive, but, on the other hand, it's also potentially less embarrassing.

What I was trying to do is to remind us that we are talking about a historical Jesus who wouldn't be found in any document under that name. And though we don't know the exact spelling or pronunciation, Yeshua and Iussuf are among the most likely. And they aren't Hebrew, they are Aramaic.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And they aren't Hebrew, they are Aramaic.

First ...

Joseph (Hebrew: יוֹסֵף‎, romanized: Yosef; Greek: Ἰωσήφ, romanized: Ioséph) is a figure in the canonical gospels who was married to Mary, Jesus' mother, and was Jesus' legal father. [source]

As for the sophomoric nonsense about the name being Aramaic ...

Joseph is a common masculine given name, derived from the Hebrew Yosef (Hebrew: יוֹסֵף‎, romanized: Yosef, lit. 'he will add'). The name comes from the Hebrew verb yasaf (Hebrew: יסף‎, romanized: yasaf, lit. 'to add; to increase'). [source]

A recommendation: stop digging.

 

[YoursTrue]

I stand by what Deuteronomy said, which I quoted.

Yes, but who is the high priest now for all Israel, I mean all Jews?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yes, but who is the high priest now for all Israel, I mean all Jews?

Fred.

 

[YoursTrue]

First ...

​

As for the sophomoric nonsense about the name being Aramaic ...

​

A recommendation: stop digging.

One can dig so deep and get to Yerusalem.

 

[YoursTrue]

Fred.

I can imagine. Good answer. Next year it's Yerusalem for you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Fred.

Yared's relative. Yayhawk.