Did Christ really exist ?

[YoursTrue]

Fred.

What a yoke. No tear toilet paper, Fred's your high priest. Got it. Enjoy...

 

[YoursTrue]

" And Jesus was given all authority. By God"

Well, I believe Jesus- the man, existed not because history tell me this but because Quran tells me this. Should I continue this Jesus existed or should I deny Jesus, please?

As for the sentence in magenta please tell me the Christian Methodology to discern right from the wrong so that I may employ it to find the correctness of it, please? And mind it, Jesus was Jew and his mother was also a Jew. Right, please?

Regards

Again, God expects us to choose what we accept as true, whether by writings or angels.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Again, God expects us to choose what we accept as true, whether by writings or angels.

What makes you think you know what God expects?

 

[YoursTrue]

What makes you think you know what God expects?

To keep it simple, it's in the Bible.

 

[joelr]

Well actually I wasn't talking about those changes or fantastical images. I was talking about God's holy spirit and He, God, the one-and-only true God that Jesus spoke of, ensured that the biblical accounts were preserved for generations.

Every nation had a myth that their God was the "one true God"? We can trace that back to the Egyptian one true ultimate God Atum. I don't follow your point?
The creation/flood myths were taken from Sumerian myths then the messianic, good vs evil, world ends in fire and good people resurrect came from Persian myths. The NT is the same except we know much more about the sources. There is no doubt that the bible is a collection of stories created by people.

 

[joelr]

<ignore-list>

What a joke. I have no time for such disingenuous nonsense.​

</ignore-list>

Really? I was responding to a one word comment - "5BC?" and now this. Someone is butthurt. Is it that hard to explain what you are trying to say? I guess it is.

 

[joelr]

What about the proof that Zorastrianism copied Christianity that I mentioned? And the differences between Zorastrianism and Christianity? The beliefs of the Persians and the Christians are very different. Christians dont believe in fire worship or anything that resembles polytheism. Their view on salvation is different from Christianity. World Religions and Cults: Zoroastrianism

So first a "church historian" is not a PhD historian. Mary Boyce is the worlds leading authority on the Persian religion. You actually referenced a historical article by a pastor? Do you care about what's actually true?
Dr. Stavrakopoulou is a PhD on the Hebrew bible. The features of the OT that used Persian concepts are from 5BC and onwards. There is no debate among scholarship on this.
Even a basic search shows agreement with academia:

Tora
"The majority of Biblical scholars believe that the written books were a product of the Babylonian captivity (c. 6th century BCE), based on earlier written sources and oral traditions, and that it was completed with final revisions during the post-Exilic period (c. 5th century BCE)."

I have shown 2 PhD historians, an OT and NT scholar explaining that the OT took concepts during the Persian period from 5BC onward. This is a standard and proven idea. Apologetics articles are not evidence. There are also apologetics that say evolution is fake and Creationism is real. Those articles are NOT SOURCED, not peer-reviewed or written by anyone with qualifications and have one purpose. To make believers feel better about facts that might otherwise be troubling.
There is no, none, zero scholarship that suggests the Persians were influenced by Christians. That is crank history. If make-believe history works for you then hide in the bubble and go with that.
Your first choice was to go to answersingenesis??????
This is a scholar, please read the amount of work she has put into one area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Boycea of education.

You don't seem to understand religious syncretism. Cultures don't copy every single thing. They take basic concepts and combine them with their own beliefs.
The basic concepts were taken from the Persians and everything else is a mixture of syncretized ideas from the borrowing and borrowed cultures, to produce a new and unique god and myth.


Early Christians were polytheistic as I have shown archaeological evidence that Yahweh was paired up with Ashera.
The OT describes a divine counsel that Yahweh sat at which echoes a time when it was standard to have many Gods.
But even in Christianity there are divine beings running around all over the place, angels, Satan and others.

 

[joelr]

The Bible mentions that the Israelites worshiped Ashera. It doesn't condone Ashera worship. Correlation doesn't equal causation. The Bible talks about the Jews walking away from God. Its a coincidence that they walked back to worshiping the one true God during the Persian period.

From Archaeology we know there was a polytheist movement is early Israel and eventually the monotheistic version won out, which is similar to the Persian myths.
Then the Israelites took concepts from the Persians and the modern Judaism emerged.

Zoroastrianism isn't really monotheistic, because they believe in Angra Mainyu. Its also a coincidence that the Zoroastrians were monotheistic because truth and lies are often mixed.

Christianity has Satan? Angra Mainyu is exactly where they got the idea for the modern version of Satan as an adversary of God. In the early OT Satan was more of an agent of God. Torturing Job, Yahweh sending Satan to inflict a plague and so on.
Both religions are monolatric. You have Satan, angels and other divine beings. Why would you bring up Angra Mainyu when Satan is a direct analog in the Christian myth?

 

[joelr]

The sayings of Christ have the ring of truth to most people and Jesus is known as the greatest moral teacher that the world has ever known. Buddha and Krishna said truth about materialism because even truth and lies are mixed. You dont need Buddha and Krishna to know that you dont need materialism.

Jesus may be the most popular moral teacher in teh West. Ok? Doesn't mean he's real? In fact I just demonstrated that Rabbi Hillell was known for saying the exact things Jesus is known for before Jesus was born.
So the fact that Jesus is just a re-working of Jewish wisdom is very obvious. He did not come up with any of those teachings. They already existed in Judaism.
Anything that Jesus taught you can find Krishna teaching as well.

I don't know what you are on about with "truth and lies"? Most of the wisdom taught by these characters is good wisdom. They are all still fictional characters.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus may be the most popular moral teacher in teh West. Ok? Doesn't mean he's real? In fact I just demonstrated that Rabbi Hillell was known for saying the exact things Jesus is known for before Jesus was born.
So the fact that Jesus is just a re-working of Jewish wisdom is very obvious. He did not come up with any of those teachings. They already existed in Judaism.
Anything that Jesus taught you can find Krishna teaching as well.

I don't know what you are on about with "truth and lies"? Most of the wisdom taught by these characters is good wisdom. They are all still fictional characters.

The sermon on the mount didnt already exist in Judaism. Jesus took the ethics of the Torah and brought it to a higher level. He said if you look at another person with lust you already committed adultty in your heart. He said that divorce is not ideal, even though Moses allowed divorce.

 

[YoursTrue]

Every nation had a myth that their God was the "one true God"? We can trace that back to the Egyptian one true ultimate God Atum. I don't follow your point?
The creation/flood myths were taken from Sumerian myths then the messianic, good vs evil, world ends in fire and good people resurrect came from Persian myths. The NT is the same except we know much more about the sources. There is no doubt that the bible is a collection of stories created by people.

I am worshipping the One that Jesus called the only true God. That is my choice. Joshua told the emerging nation of israel to choose for themselves whom they will serve. Joshua chapter 24. He chose to serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The nation did not always do so.

 

[YoursTrue]

Every nation had a myth that their God was the "one true God"? We can trace that back to the Egyptian one true ultimate God Atum. I don't follow your point?
The creation/flood myths were taken from Sumerian myths then the messianic, good vs evil, world ends in fire and good people resurrect came from Persian myths. The NT is the same except we know much more about the sources. There is no doubt that the bible is a collection of stories created by people.

How do you know there was not a flood these accounts were based on?

 

[joelr]

More Proof The Bible Is True – 2,600-Year Old Clay Seal Of Royal Steward Discovered In Israel

Ok, so you don't care. To each his own. The site you linked to translates it as "My Lord is Yahweh", they just made that up. And you didn't even blink. They also say Rihanna is an Illuminati Satan agenda pushing evil person. DO you see a problem here? Do you care AT ALL about what it true. No, you do not.

actual sites translate:
Adoniyahu Asher Al Habayit,” which literally translates as “Adoniyahu, who is over the house.” The term, which means “royal steward,” is used throughout the Bible to describe the most senior official serving under a king of Judea or Israel.

Jesus and the Apostle Paul are historical figures. Unlike other faiths, Christianity is based off of real historical events. Just because the Bible teaches doesn't mean that it also doesn't describe.l

Paul is historical. 7 of his letters are authentic the rest scholarship believes to be forgeries added by later Christians.
Jesus is only historical as a man who was later mythicized as a demi god. No scholarship thinks he was really a son of God. That is a myth, same as all myths. Dying , rising savior gods were all over that region, before Jesus.

what PhD historians think:

"
When the question of the historicity of Jesus comes up in an honest professional context, we are not asking whether the Gospel Jesus existed. All non-fundamentalist scholars agree that that Jesus never did exist. Christian apologetics is pseudo-history. No different than defending Atlantis. Or Moroni. Or women descending from Adam’s rib.

No. We aren’t interested in that.

When it comes to Jesus, just as with anyone else, real history is about trying to figure out what, if anything, we can really know about the man depicted in the New Testament (his actual life and teachings), through untold layers of distortion and mythmaking; and what, if anything, we can know about his role in starting the Christian movement that spread after his death."

 

[Skywalker]

From Archaeology we know there was a polytheist movement is early Israel and eventually the monotheistic version won out, which is similar to the Persian myths.
Then the Israelites took concepts from the Persians and the modern Judaism emerged.



Christianity has Satan? Angra Mainyu is exactly where they got the idea for the modern version of Satan as an adversary of God. In the early OT Satan was more of an agent of God. Torturing Job, Yahweh sending Satan to inflict a plague and so on.
Both religions are monolatric. You have Satan, angels and other divine beings. Why would you bring up Angra Mainyu when Satan is a direct analog in the Christian myth?

Satan is a fallen angel, not the evil equivalent of God. Satan has attributes like free will but he doesn't use them for good. Jewish people believe in the devil. I read in a book about OCD that a Jewish doctor wrote, where he talked about the destructive nature of it, and he used language similar to the New Testament language about Satan, insinuating that he thinks that OCD worries are influenced by a Satan who is different from the belief of some Jewish people that Satan is more of an agent of God. God and Satan talking about Job was because God allowed Satan to inflict a plague-He didn't cause it.

Christians dont believe Satan and angels are gods. They are created beings. Angra Mainyu is not a fallen angel.

 

[joelr]

How do you know there was not a flood these accounts were based on?

Modern science rules out the possibility of a world flood. Even if true, Gods flooding the Earth to kill everyone (and animals) is a crap myth. A flood also does not mean a sky-God like Zeus caused it. The water would also still be here.



"Modern geology, its sub-disciplines and other scientific disciplines utilize the scientific method to analyze the geology of the earth. The key tenets of flood geology are refuted by scientific analysis and do not have any standing in the scientific community.
Erosion
The global flood cannot explain geological formations such as angular unconformities, where sedimentary rocks have been tilted and eroded then more sedimentary layers deposited on top, needing long periods of time for these processes. There is also the time needed for the erosion of valleys in sedimentary rock mountains. In another example, the flood, had it occurred, should also have produced large-scale effects spread throughout the entire world. Erosion should be evenly distributed, yet the levels of erosion in, for example, the Appalachians and the Rocky Mountains differ significantly.[112]

Geochronology

The alternation of calcite and aragonite seas through geologic time.[113]
Geochronology is the science of determining the absolute age of rocks, fossils, and sediments by a variety of techniques. These methods indicate that the Earth as a whole is about 4.54 billion years old, and that the strata that, according to flood geology, were laid down during the Flood some 6,000 years ago, were actually deposited gradually over many millions of years.

Paleontology
If the flood were responsible for fossilization, then all the animals now fossilized must have been living together on the Earth just before the flood. Based on estimates of the number of remains buried in the Karoo fossil formation in Africa, this would correspond to an abnormally high density of vertebrates worldwide, close to 2100 per acre.[84] Creationists argue that evidence for the geological column is fragmentary, and all the complex layers of chalk occurred in the approach to the 150th day of Noah's flood.[114][115] However, the entire geologic column is found in several places, and shows multiple features, including evidence of erosion and burrowing through older layers, which are inexplicable on a short timescale. Carbonate hardgrounds and the fossils associated with them show that the so-called flood sediments include evidence of long hiatuses in deposition that are not consistent with flood dynamics or timing.[7]

Geochemistry
Proponents of Flood Geology are also unable to account for the alternation between calcite seas and aragonite seas through the Phanerozoic. The cyclical pattern of carbonate hardgrounds, calcitic and aragonitic ooids, and calcite-shelled fauna has apparently been controlled by seafloor spreading rates and the flushing of seawater through hydrothermal vents which changes its Mg/Ca ratio.[116]

Sedimentary rock features
Phil Senter's 2011 article, "The Defeat of Flood Geology by Flood Geology", in the journal Reports of the National Center for Science Education, discusses "sedimentologic and other geologic features that Flood geologists have identified as evidence that particular strata cannot have been deposited during a time when the entire planet was under water ... and distribution of strata that predate the existence of the Ararat mountain chain." These include continental basalts, terrestrial tracks of animals, and marine communities preserving multiple in-situ generations included in the rocks of most or all Phanerozoic periods, and the basalt even in the younger Precambrian rocks. Others, occurring in rocks of several geologic periods, include lake deposits and eolian (wind) deposits. Using their own words, Flood geologists find evidence in every Paleozoic and Mesozoic period, and in every epoch of the Cenozoic period, indicating that a global flood could not have occurred during that interval.[117]

 

[joelr]

I am worshipping the One that Jesus called the only true God. That is my choice. Joshua told the emerging nation of israel to choose for themselves whom they will serve. Joshua chapter 24. He chose to serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. The nation did not always do so.

I get that but they are still myths?

 

[joelr]

Satan is a fallen angel, not the evil equivalent of God. Satan has attributes like free will but he doesn't use them for good. Jewish people believe in the devil. I read in a book about OCD that a Jewish doctor wrote, where he talked about the destructive nature of it, and he used language similar to the New Testament language about Satan, insinuating that he thinks that OCD worries are influenced by a Satan who is different from the belief of some Jewish people that Satan is more of an agent of God. God and Satan talking about Job was because God allowed Satan to inflict a plague-He didn't cause it.

Christians dont believe Satan and angels are gods. They are created beings. Angra Mainyu is not a fallen angel.

So? In early OT there was a divine council and other dieties existed.
“The heavens praise your wonders, Yahweh,
your faithfulness too, in the assembly of the holy ones.
For who in the skies above can compare with Yahweh?
Who is like the Yahweh among the sons of God?
In the council of the holy ones God is greatly feared;
He is more awesome than all who surround Him.
Who is like you, Yahweh God of the heavenly host?
You, Yahweh, are mighty, and your faithfulness
surrounds you.” (Ps. 89:5-7)
The Divine Council of Yahweh

Satan was more of an agent of God until the Persian re-working of concepts.
Monolatric, monotheistic, they are still all myths? The divine council is a made-up story and evey God is every story is as well.

 

[paarsurrey]

To keep it simple, it's in the Bible.

What method/technique does one use to know right from wrong and or good from evil, please?
Did Jesus and Mary use the same method/technique, please?
If yes, please quote from them in this connection and the reason given by Jesus and Mary, please?

Regards

 

[joelr]

The sermon on the mount didnt already exist in Judaism. Jesus took the ethics of the Torah and brought it to a higher level. He said if you look at another person with lust you already committed adultty in your heart. He said that divorce is not ideal, even though Moses allowed divorce.

Random tweaks on Jewish morality is hardly impressive? It's known in academia that the Sermon was written using the Greek version of the OT the Septuigant. All of the wisdom can be found in the OT. Saying non-believers go to eternal torture is not a "higher level".
The Sermon is far too long to have been spoken by one person but is believed to have been written using the Greek OT as a guide.
It's standard in scholarship at this point. This short video gives the current position on the Sermon:

 

[Skywalker]

So? In early OT there was a divine council and other dieties existed.
“The heavens praise your wonders, Yahweh,
your faithfulness too, in the assembly of the holy ones.
For who in the skies above can compare with Yahweh?
Who is like the Yahweh among the sons of God?
In the council of the holy ones God is greatly feared;
He is more awesome than all who surround Him.
Who is like you, Yahweh God of the heavenly host?
You, Yahweh, are mighty, and your faithfulness
surrounds you.” (Ps. 89:5-7)
The Divine Council of Yahweh

Satan was more of an agent of God until the Persian re-working of concepts.
Monolatric, monotheistic, they are still all myths? The divine council is a made-up story and evey God is every story is as well.

Holy ones, sons of God, heavenly host, refers to angels. During the days of Jesus, the Pharisees believed in Satan as the devil. Satan appeared with angels in Job but that doesn't mean he was part of a divine council. Some people think he didn't appear in heaven either. These details arent important. Regardless of what you believe about those details, everyone knows that evil exists. The age of the earth is not important. Whether dinosaurs existed isnt important. Why do you think that God is made up?