Did Christianity Start with Jesus?

[paarsurrey]

Jesus not only followed God's word, he prayed for God's name to be sanctified, or hallowed, or made holy. "Let your NAME be sanctified," or Hallowed be thy Name. He did not break the law.

Jesus followed G-d's Word Revealed on Moses all his life, so, he never was a Christian and did not start Christianity. He never claimed it in so many words, I understand. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus followed G-d's Word Revealed on Moses all his life, so, he never was a Christian and did not start Christianity. He never claimed it in so many words, I understand. Right, please?

Regards

I don't think Jesus was a Khazar. Do you agree with people who said that he was not a Jew but an Israelite.

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't think Jesus was a Khazar. Do you agree with people who said that he was not a Jew but an Israelite.

Israelites are these days known with the title Jews, commonly. Right, please?
I don't know "Khazar", please?

Regards

 

[Skywalker]

Israelites are these days known with the title Jews, commonly. Right, please?
I don't know "Khazar", please?

Regards

Similar to African Americans, Jews arent referred in the way that Italian Americans sometimes call themselves Italian. African refers to African immigrants, African Americans are rarely called African. There is a church called the African Methodist Episcopal Church, but people use the term African American to a higher degree when talking about slave descendants.

Similar to African refers generally to African immigrants and not slave diaspora descendants, Israelite or Israeli generally refers to the Hebrews in the Old Testament or people with ancestry related to the nation of Israel, not to Hebrew diaspora descendants. Khazars - Wikipedia

 

[Skywalker]

Which Christianity?

I think Jesus was a catalyst who just happened to be in the right place at the right time, given there were many such preachers wandering around Judea at that point. He probably wouldn't have been remembered were it not for the resurrection story. Christianity is built on the resurrection of Jesus, if we take what Paul says in 1 Corinthians,

"And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain."

It seems to me that Paul was a spearhead in Asia Minor, while James the Just led the charge in Jerusalem, with these two Churches being apparently somewhat different iterations of the faith. James the Just was known as a great keeper of Torah, apparently teaching others to do the same; so if we're talking about modern non-Jewish Christianity, it seems Paul leads the way there, as his practice seems much closer to what most Christians are doing today. By reading the gospels alone I can't find any trace of Jesus wanting to found a new faith; he seems to have issues with the leaders of the day, had a different understanding of some Torah practices, but on the whole his seems to have been more a political problem with the authorities than anything. He also taught 'Repent ye, for the kingdom of G-d is at hand', which means he apparently believed the end times were imminent, in which case, what need for a new religion?

So I'd say it started with Jesus but without Paul it also may have just ended there, too. As the gospels seem to contradict each other, I'm not sure how much we can say on this.

I believe that Jesus is the Messiah because the Old Testament says that the Messiah would be God and born of a virgin and would die for the sins of the world.

 

[YoursTrue]

Rabbinic Judaism isn't just from the festivals found in the Bible it's also the traditions of rabbis.

Jesus certainly did not always agree with "rabbinic Judaism."

Jesus followed G-d's Word Revealed on Moses all his life, so, he never was a Christian and did not start Christianity. He never claimed it in so many words, I understand. Right, please?

Regards

Jesus said to follow him. Matthew 8:22.

 

[Skywalker]

Jesus certainly did not always agree with "rabbinic Judaism."

Jesus said to follow him. Matthew 8:22.

Do you believe that the festivals of Judaism that are in the Bible came from Moses? I dont believe they were from rabbinic Judaism.

 

[Skywalker]

The historical Jesus, if we can pry him away from legend, taught the Torah. He believed he was the messiah, but he failed in his attempt. Not in a million years did he ever imagine a new religion coming into being. That was Paul's doing. Paul substantially changed the theology, so much so that the theology of Paul's writings contradicts the theology of the Tanakh. Further, Judaism, like Jesus, is concerned with Jews. Paul created something that was universal in nature, and ended up becoming hostile to Jews.

The Tanakh talks about the Messiah being the Savior who is born of a virgin and is God incarnate.
Isaiah 53:5 But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.
Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 7:14 - New International Version
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus was concerned with the Jews. Jesus was a rabbi in the 1st century sense of the term, but not a rabbi in the context of rabbinic Judaism. Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

 

[YoursTrue]

It would have started with his followers. Jesus practiced Judaism.

He said he came to fulfill the Law. How do you feel about that?
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill." Matthew 5:17

 

[YoursTrue]

Do you believe that the festivals of Judaism that are in the Bible came from Moses? I dont believe they were from rabbinic Judaism.

The holiday of Hanukkah didn't come from Moses. Anyway, it's an interesting question. You can go to jw.org and research Hanukkah and festivals there.

 

[Skywalker]

The holiday of Hanukkah didn't come from Moses. Anyway, it's an interesting question. You can go to jw.org and research Hanukkah and festivals there.

So is the ethno cultural religious identity of Judaism also related to the Israelites traditions, or just the Old Covenant of Moses? It seems like a unique ethnic group in terms of what type of ethnic group it is.

 

[Skywalker]

He said he came to fulfill the Law. How do you feel about that?
“Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill." Matthew 5:17

Jesus said if someone looks with lust they committed adultery and he was against divorce, which the Old Law allowed. Jesus didnt abolish the Old Covenant. The first Christians were like messianic Jews and gentiles. I believe in the supercessionism of Jesus with the Old Covenant, but He abolish replace it. Supersessionism - Wikipedia

Paul was the first major figure in Christian history to hold that Jewish lawis no longer valid.
Supersessionism, also called replacement theology, is a Christian doctrine which asserts that the New Covenant through Jesus Christsupersedes the Old Covenant, which was made exclusively with the Jewish people.

In Christianity, supersessionism is a theological view on the current status of the church in relation to the Jewish people and Judaism.[1] It holds that the Christian Church has succeeded the Israelites as the definitive people of God[1][2][3] or that the New Covenant has replaced or superseded the Mosaic covenant.[4] From a supersessionist's "point of view, just by continuing to exist [outside the Church], the Jews dissent".[5] This view directly contrasts with dual-covenant theology which holds that the Mosaic covenant remains valid for Jews.

Supersessionism has formed a core tenet of the Christian Churches for the majority of their existence. Christian traditions that have traditionally championed dual-covenant theology (including the Roman Catholic, Reformed and Methodist teachings of this doctrine), have taught that the moral law continues to stand.[6]

Subsequent to and because of the Holocaust, some mainstream Christian theologians and denominations have rejected supersessionism.[7]:2–3

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus said if someone looks with lust they committed adultery and he was against divorce, which the Old Law allowed. Jesus didnt abolish the Old Covenant. The first Christians were like messianic Jews and gentiles. I believe in the supercessionism of Jesus with the Old Covenant, but He abolish replace it. Supersessionism - Wikipedia

Jesus was not against divorce, but he certainly didn't think it should be applied whenever a woman displeased her husband, as the rabbis taught. Jesus said he came to fulfill the Law. So now Jesus said to follow him. Jesus came to gather his sheep. Christianity allows for divorce, but not on a frivolous ground. Jesus gives everlasting life to his sheep.
John 10:27,28 - My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them everlasting life, and they will by no means ever be destroyed, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

 

[Miken]

I am way behind on replying partly because of a ton and a half of RL obligations but also because of forces of nature and the evilness of Microsoft. To begin with my laptop broke - literally, The recharging mechanism broke apart leaving me with a limited time to abandon ship. Because of the frequent internet interruptions in my area I keep everything on my hard disk with Norton backing me up frequently, I offloaded all my files onto a DVD.

I went to the old computer and loaded up the DVD, To my surprise there are no new files on it. Went to Norton backup and found the same thing, Turns out that Microsoft in their infinite malice had decided that the default Save location for files was not in my best interest and they would save everything to OneDrive in the cloud instead. And this is with OneDrive disconnected!

I just figured this out and was going to move all those many copies of posts I needed to respond to from OneDrive when the internet crapped out. And stayed out, Cannot get at all those drafts and cannot get to the site to get new copies.

I now finally have the internet back and all the draft copies back. I have found out to save files. First select This PC instead of OneDrive. Now Browse to where you want to save and then finally save. The default Save folder is simply ignored. Save without all that and it goes to OneDrive even though it is disconnected,

So I am just now starting to create replies.

The abbreviation for Microsoft should not be MS. It should be MF.

BTW my TV with all its myriads of channels is on the same cable service as the internet,

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Tanakh talks about the Messiah being the Savior who is born of a virgin and is God incarnate.
Isaiah 53:5 But He was pierced for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.
Bible Gateway passage: Isaiah 7:14 - New International Version
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given, and the government will be upon His shoulders. And He will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Jesus was concerned with the Jews. Jesus was a rabbi in the 1st century sense of the term, but not a rabbi in the context of rabbinic Judaism. Jesus said that he was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah. It is about Israel. The metaphor of the servant is used throughout Isaiah, and is clearly identified as "Israel, my servant, Jacob."

"But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,
Isaiah 41:8

 

[YoursTrue]

Rabbinic Judaism isn't just from the festivals found in the Bible it's also the traditions of rabbis.

And so? Various religions have their differences, adherents, ways, and traditions.

 

[YoursTrue]

Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah. It is about Israel. The metaphor of the servant is used throughout Isaiah, and is clearly identified as "Israel, my servant, Jacob."

"But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,
Isaiah 41:8

Abraham is said to be a descendent of Adam and Eve's offspring. Did you say you believe that?

 

[YoursTrue]

Jesus followed G-d's Word Revealed on Moses all his life, so, he never was a Christian and did not start Christianity. He never claimed it in so many words, I understand. Right, please?

Regards

Jesus fulfilled the law. He also sacrificed himself. He never sinned.
The word Christ means anointed one. It was not Jesus' last name. There were other christs in the Bible, but Jesus is the one that his Father blessed and used to shepherd the sheep..Jesus did not follow himself anyway. He told others to follow him.
You may not realize it, but the word christ means 'anointed one' or Messiah (maschiach) from the Hebrew and Greek. While there were other anointed ones (mashiachs - messiahs) in the Bible, Jesus is the one that his heavenly Father (not himself) blessed as the Messiah giving everlasting life.
For instance, Jesus spoke of himself as a shepherd. A shepherd tends, feeds, and guards sheep or flocks of both sheep and goats. You may want to read this in the Bible:
"I am the door; whoever enters through me will be saved, and that one will go in and out and find pasturage.” -- John 10:7-9. Jesus said that. I encourage you to look at jw.org to learn more about this.

 

[YoursTrue]

Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah. It is about Israel. The metaphor of the servant is used throughout Isaiah, and is clearly identified as "Israel, my servant, Jacob."

"But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,
Isaiah 41:8

How do you see God in Hitler?

 

[Skywalker]

Isaiah 53 is not about the messiah. It is about Israel. The metaphor of the servant is used throughout Isaiah, and is clearly identified as "Israel, my servant, Jacob."

"But you, Israel, my servant, Jacob, whom I have chosen, you descendants of Abraham my friend,
Isaiah 41:8

The iniquity of us all wasnt laid upon Israel. Jesus took our iniquity because He doesn't want to be separated from His creation. Salvation affects more than the afterlife. Jesus also died so we could come before God. His goal wasn't social liberation of the Israelites from the Romans.