Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
The Bible says it's possible to "stop the sun" and not kill every living thing on Earth in the process.
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Did Epicurus disprove God?
- Thread starter Dan4reason
- Start date
If He is all powerful, He can certainly make His way around a paradox right? So He could rid the evil choices in our freewill, but also give us freewill.
If you will say "but if He rids anything in our freewill it will not be freewill anymore." I will reply, "Why do we not have the ability to fly or teleport? That is ridding freewill also is it not?"
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Right under the verse where it says that the moon is made of cheese.
waitasec
Veteran Member
it does?
Gjallarhorn
N'yog-Sothep
Claiming God would obey a human is pretty cheesy...
"There has never been a day like it before or since, a day when the LORD listened to a human being."
Would there be a "future" for an omnipresent (present in all times) being?
A
angellous_evangellous
Guest
Yes - it says what kind, too. God's favorite: American.
If he did, then it wouldn't be a paradox, would it?
Because the ability to fly or teleport isn't free will? Free will is found in the capacity to act, not in doing whatever you want.
As an analogy: Let's say you can think, and that this is a good thing. 
You have the capacity for thought. Now, can you then calculate the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow? Probably not; but that doesn't mean you can't think.
Same with free will. You may not be able to fly or walk through walls, but that doesn't mean you can't act, and it doesn't limit your ability to act. As long as you're alive and kicking, you have the capacity to act. And this is a good thing. That you utilize that capacity is free will.
You have the capacity for thought. Now, can you then calculate the air speed velocity of an unladen swallow? Probably not; but that doesn't mean you can't think.Same with free will. You may not be able to fly or walk through walls, but that doesn't mean you can't act, and it doesn't limit your ability to act. As long as you're alive and kicking, you have the capacity to act. And this is a good thing.
That you utilize that capacity is free will.
An all powerful being certainly would be able to choose whether or not to limit the power and wouldn't limit the being. The being wouldn't be all powerful if limiting his own power wasn't also an option.
dust1n
Zindīq
Assuming that god created everything, it sounds pretty malevolent to me. But at best, it's just passive... which I've always heard is the real evil anyways.
As an analogy: Let's say you can think, and that this is a good thing.
Same with free will. You may not be able to fly or walk through walls, but that doesn't mean you can't act, and it doesn't limit your ability to act. As long as you're alive and kicking, you have the capacity to act. And this is a good thing.
Therefore taking our ability to do bad things wouldn't be ridding our freewill...
Well, not logically, but sure.
It's a matter of identity: he's either all-powerful, or he's not. It's for the person posing the question to be logically specific.
Here's a bit of light reading about it, if you like:
Omnipotence (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)
No capacity to act = no chance to choose to act. No chance to choose to act = no chance at free will.
I give up, too hard to debate for me, knowingly that I think evil doesn't exist.
Dan4reason
Facts not Faith
Of course, that is correct. But that predisposition will change the direction of your life all the same. Why didn't God just give us good predispositions?
Another thing to note that while some people may be able to almost completely get over their predispositions, the majority don't. Self-control itself has some basis in genetics.
Dan4reason
Facts not Faith
No one can completely detach themselves from emotion completely. We are emotional animals. We can change the way we feel a little bit but we are generally born with the personalities we have. We cannot 100% resist our emotions 100% of the time. We have some self-control, but not near 100%. The fact that no Christian can be 100% good no matter how hard he tried attests to this fact.
Like it or not we cannot always choose our emotions, and our emotions have quite a bit of say in our decisions no matter how much self-control we have. While emotions are great, they really don't conform to a God who loves free will.