Did God Create This ???

[FFH]

I'm curious why you accept the word of geologists that Niagara Falls has been eroding for about 12,000 years but you don't accept their word that the Grand Canyon has been eroding for millions of years.


I notice you left Noah's Flood out of your time line here. If it occurred after Adam and Eve were cast out of Eden, then how can the oldest living tree be 9,550 years old?

Yeah, I didn't correct that before posting it, that was an earlier version of this later post from another thread.

I haven't found a bush or a tree older than these two.

Here is a previously written post with the corrections...

The oldest living plant should fit within the 7,000 year creation model and within my 13,000 year old proposed age of the earth.

According to the Biblical time frame, that I've layed out, the first plants and trees were created, and started to grow, baginning in the year 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago...

The King Clone creosote bush is 11,700 years old, according to Jim Cormett, curator of the Palm Springs Desert Museum and is possibly the oldest living thing on earth, discovered in the Mojave desert, Palm Springs, California.

First 1,000 year period of creation starts 11,000 BC/13,000 years ago
Earth was without form and void
Water was upon the whole face of the earth
Light created

Second 1,000 year period starts 10,000 BC/12,000 years ago
Firmament/heavens/skies created
Waters divided between earth and the firmament/heavens/skies

Third 1,000 year period starts 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago
Land and waters divided
Dry land appears and seas form
Plants and trees of all kinds created

The World's Oldest Living Thing
King Clone Creosote Bush 9,700 BC/11,700 years old

The Oldest Germinated Seed approximately 10,000 years old

Fourth 1,000 year period starts 8,000 BC/10,000 years ago
Sun, moon and stars created
Day and night begins

Fifth 1,000 year period starts 7,000 BC/9,000 years ago
All creatures of the sea and skies created

Sixth 1,000 year period starts 6,000 BC/8,000 years ago
All creatures of the land created
Adam and Eve created

Seventh 1,000 year period starts 5,000 BC/7,000 years ago
God rested from all his labors
Adam and Eve commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

4,004 BC/6,000 years ago
Time of the fall

2,800 BC/ 4,800 years old
Oldest Living Tree (Bristlecone Pine)
The oldest Bristlecones are found at elevations of 10,000 or 11,000 feet

2,304 BC/ 4,300 years ago
Time of flood

See this page: Date of the flood

 

[FFH]

Someone had listed it was a tree on another site, so I had listed it as a tree, or the remains of a tree, on that earlier post, but later found out it was actually a bush.

The World's Oldest Living Thing
King Clone Creosote Bush 9,700 BC/11,700 years old

It should read...

First day of creation (waters upon the face of the earth) 13,000 to 12,000 years ago
Niagra Falls 12,500 years old
Water starts flowing 12,000 years ago
Vegetation created (third day of creation) 11,000 to 10,000 years ago
Oldest living plant/bush ~ 9,700 years old
Adam and Eve Fell (cast out of the Garden of Eden) ~ 6,000 years ago
Christ atones for the sins of the world ~ 2,000 years ago

 

[camanintx]

Yeah, I didn't correct that before posting it, that was an earlier version of this later post from another thread.

Here are the corrections...

I haven't found a bush or a tree older than these two.

What about the 9,550 year old spruce in Sweden? I believe that is where your original date came from. How did this tree manage to survive the flood?

And you still haven't explained why geologists are correct about the age of Niagara Falls but not the Grand Canyon. Tuff one, I know.

 

[FFH]

So putting it all together...

The oldest living plant should fit within the 7,000 year creation model and within my 13,000 year old proposed age of the earth.

According to the Biblical time frame, that I've layed out, the first plants and trees were created, and started to grow, baginning in the year 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago...

The King Clone creosote bush is 11,700 years old, according to Jim Cormett, curator of the Palm Springs Desert Museum and is possibly the oldest living thing on earth, discovered in the Mojave desert, Palm Springs, California.

First 1,000 year period of creation starts 11,000 BC/13,000 years ago
Earth was without form and void
Water was upon the whole face of the earth
Light created

Niagra Falls has been eroding the canyon wall (flowing) for about 12,500 years, according to geologists. The Niagara River is a connecting channel between two Great Lakes, Erie and Ontario.

According to park geologists, Niagara Falls has moved back 7 miles in 12,500 years from the canyon rim where it started eroding

Source

Second 1,000 year period starts 10,000 BC/12,000 years ago
Firmament/heavens/skies created
Waters divided between earth and the firmament/heavens/skies

Third 1,000 year period starts 9,000 BC/11,000 years ago
Land and waters divided
Dry land appears and seas form
Plants and trees of all kinds created

The World's Oldest Living Thing
King Clone Creosote Bush 9,700 BC/11,700 years old

The Oldest Germinated Seed approximately 10,000 years old

Fourth 1,000 year period starts 8,000 BC/10,000 years ago
Sun, moon and stars created
Day and night begins

Fifth 1,000 year period starts 7,000 BC/9,000 years ago
All creatures of the sea and skies created

Sixth 1,000 year period starts 6,000 BC/8,000 years ago
All creatures of the land created
Adam and Eve created

Seventh 1,000 year period starts 5,000 BC/7,000 years ago
God rested from all his labors
Adam and Eve commanded not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil

4,004 BC/6,000 years ago
Time of the fall

2,800 BC/ 4,800 years old
Oldest Living Tree (Bristlecone Pine)
The oldest Bristlecones are found at elevations of 10,000 or 11,000 feet

2,304 BC/ 4,300 years ago
Time of flood

See this page: Date of the flood

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

all theories of a million or billion year old earth are just that, theories.

Deu 18:20 But the prophet, who shall speak a word presumptuously in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or who shall speak in the name of other elohims, that same prophet shall die.
Deu 18:21 If you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which YAH has not spoken?
Deu 18:22 when a prophet speaks in the name of YAH, if the thing doesn't follow, nor happen, that is the thing which YAH has not spoken: the prophet has spoken it presumptuously, you shall not be afraid of him.

I would be very wary of any man that states that he knows more than that which has already been written from those whose prophecies did come into being.

It is easy to see that Yah created the heavens and the earth almost exactly as science has determined. If one would only take their time and read slowly the beginning as all was being created they will see just what they learned in school in Biology as well as basic earth science class. There had to be a whole lot done and come into being before this old world would be able to sustain life much less that of the life of man. This took more than any few thousand years. Yah created everything in order so that the water, when the sun shined and created heat, would rise during evaporation would then water the air and bring about humidity. This made the water thick in the air to help feed the atmosphere and the new plant life that begin to spring forth from the puddle of life. I skipped allot. The dinosaurs were created to do not to much unlike what the birds and animals do today. Think about it. How do you get that weed growing in your perfectly groomed lawn. Did a bird, dog, cat, squirrel, etc. etc. etc. eat something with a seed and then left you a surprise on your lawn with the seed in it that eventually rested in the soil and sprouted? Think about this same thing but on a much, much, much larger scale with the dinosaurs and all of the wildlife of that time. They helped with the vegetating of the entire globe. Once all was ready then Yah caused an asteroid to help with creating the ice age and the eventual genocide of the dinosaurs and all those living creatures that would have been a detriment to mankind. If man had of been created when the dinosaurs were here then we would not have lasted very long. We would have all been dinner. This is when all the animals that we mostly have today were made as the cow. What chance did a cow have with the likes of a Tyrannosaurus Rex? There wouldn’t be enough cows to reproduce fast enough to keep those hungry carnivores fed. When all was ready and prepared then Elohim created Adam. The earth would have not been ready to sustain nor protect Adam prior to this time.

It really isn’t that much of a stretch.

 

[FFH]

What about the 9,550 year old spruce in Sweden? I believe that is where your original date came from. How did this tree manage to survive the flood?

And you still haven't explained why geologists are correct about the age of Niagara Falls but not the Grand Canyon. Tuff one, I know.

Okay, great link, maybe that's where I got the 9,550 tree date from, I don't remember, it was a few years ago when I posted that in another thread, then later revised it to read as it does in that last post I just posted.

Is it entirely impossible for a tree to survive a flood ??? That's what needs to researched.

I don't have any problem adding that to my last post, it just seemed less believable though, that that particular tree is actually 9,550 years old, I guess that's why I didn't use it in my final revised post.

 

[Draka]

I really hate all this batting around of the word "theory" as if it means "guess" when it doesn't. A scientific theory is a rational and logical explanation that ties together all the facts at hand. All the facts point to the progressional development of the species...thus we have the theory of evolution.

Now, the age of the earth being 4.54 billion years old isn't even a theory, it is a proven fact. Even if you were to consider it a theory it would still be a scientific theory from taking all the facts that prove the earth is millions and billions of years old and putting a more specific date on it.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Okay, great link, maybe that's where I got the 9,550 tree thing from, I don't know.

Is it entirely impossible for a tree to survive a flood, that's what we need to research.

I don't have any problem adding that to my last post, it just seem less believable that that particular tree is 9,550 years old, I guess that's why I didn't use it in my final revised post.

Wait a minute. Wasn't one of the signs that showed Noach that there was dry land was the fact the dove came back with the olive leaf in her mouth? At what altitude does an olive tree grow?

Gen 8:11 The dove came back to him at evening, and, behold, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off. So Noach knew that the waters were abated from the earth.

There should have been at least this lone olive tree huh?

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

I really hate all this batting around of the word "theory" as if it means "guess" when it doesn't. A scientific theory is a rational and logical explanation that ties together all the facts at hand. All the facts point to the progressional development of the species...thus we have the theory of evolution.

Now, the age of the earth being 4.54 billion years old isn't even a theory, it is a proven fact. Even if you were to consider it a theory it would still be a scientific theory from taking all the facts that prove the earth is millions and billions of years old and putting a more specific date on it.

And we all started out black because the genome project stated that we all have a gene that originated in Africa so when I fill out a job application and it ask me about my race even though I am white I now say that I am African-American. Really, no lie.

 

[FFH]

Wait a minute. Wasn't one of the signs that showed Noach that there was dry land was the fact the dove came back with the olive leaf in her mouth? At what altitude does an olive tree grow?

Gen 8:11 The dove came back to him at evening, and, behold, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off. So Noach knew that the waters were abated from the earth.

There should have been at least this lone olive tree huh?

Ah, yeah, great point, so trees did survive the flood. So maybe I'll add that 9550 year old tree to my list.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

Ah, yeah, great point, so trees did survive the flood.

Hey, you can't agree with me.

 

[FFH]

Hey, you can't agree with me.

:angel2:

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

:angel2:

Which brings me to ask you another question. Do you believe in two winged angels?

 

[camanintx]

Okay, great link, maybe that's where I got the 9,550 tree date from, I don't remember, it was a few years ago when I posted that in another thread, then later revised it to read as it does in that last post I just posted.

Is it entirely impossible for a tree to survive a flood ??? That's what needs to researched.

I don't have any problem adding that to my last post, it just seemed less believable though, that that particular tree is actually 9,550 years old, I guess that's why I didn't use it in my final revised post.

You owe me a new irony meter. This post just overloaded mine.

 

[FFH]

Which brings me to ask you another question. Do you believe in two winged angels?

No, just symbols representing their ability to travel to and from earth.

 

[FFH]

You owe me a new irony meter. This post just overloaded mine.

Okay, not a good choice of words, but you know what I mean, looking at THAT tree it doesn't look 9,550 years old.

I don't think the article is saying THAT particular tree is 9,550 years old, but that particular SPECIES of tree is 9,550 years old and I needed an actually living tree that ACTUALLY WAS "X" number of years old, that's why I later went with the Bristleton Pine tree, because it ACTUALLY WAS 2,800 years old.

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

No, just symbols representing their ability to travel to and from earth.

So you believe in symbols. Do you also have images and the sort of things on earth and above in the heavens?

 

[Berachiah Ben Yisrael]

No, just symbols representing their ability to travel to and from earth.

So you believe in the symbol of a two winged angel that the two wings represent the ability of an angel to travel to and fro?

 

[FFH]

Camanintx,

Look at that article closely, it only claims there are "wood pieces" near the tree, which have been "carbon dated" at "9,500 years old".

That article does not claim that that particular tree is 9,550 years old, so I must have later dropped it in lue of the Bristlecone Pine on that basis alone.

"The tree now growing above the finding place and the wood pieces dating 9,550 years have the same genetic material. The actual has been tested by carbon-14 dating at a laboratory in Miami, Florida, USA."

World's Oldest Living Tree -- 9550 years old -- Discovered In Sweden

Still I won't discredit this as a good finding.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

You are in my thoughts, FFH. I hope you get better soon.