Did Jesus actually exist as a historical figure?

[steeltoes]

Now you're using the Gospels and Acts to contradict Paul, who is the earlier source? Is that only OK when it seems to support your position?

Of course, the later tradition is that Jesus didn't have biological brothers at all and that ἀδελφός is supposed to mean something else (never mind that the context doesn't really allow for it). The erasure of his earthly family is a process we can trace.

If you are going to read the gospels into the epistles it is you that has to be consistent. You conflate apostles with disciples, and you assume that the epistle writers were writing about a preacher from Galilee when they make no such claim. Paul is an apostle no different than the apostles that he meets, the only problem he has is convincing them that he no longer persecutes those from the church of God, that is the past that he has to deal with, he states as much. According to Paul, the risen Christ made an appearance, he had visions, and his experience of that was no different than the other apostles and brethren that also had visions of a risen Christ.

 

[Hachan]

Anyone who is THOROUGHLY familiar with ALL the evidence knows that Jesus was a real historical figure whose heart started beating again and wounds began to heal after his lifeless body was wrapped in a burial shroud.

In anticipation of replies from those who are less informed, I did say THOROUGHLY informed of ALL the evidence. And since this takes many years, there will be too much to post here, so just keep reading and especially read things which challenge your understanding.

 

[we-live-now]

If only we could find his tomb, dig up his bones, and carbon date them...
Good Luck with your search.

I am convinced that will never happen. His "bones" are those of his true spiritual body now who have his spirit alive inside and are being regenerated from within. They are the very "bones of Joseph" that were carried down to "spiritual Egypt" - the natural body where we all exist right now. All his words are spiritual but point to natural things that we can see now and vice versa. They are the "signs" (pointers) that God promised us.

 

[outhouse]

They are the very "bones of Joseph" that were carried down to "spiritual Egypt" - the natural body where we all exist right now.

What does this even mean in English?

Has nothing to do with the OP.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Anyone who is THOROUGHLY familiar with ALL the evidence knows ...

And you are THOROUGHLY familiar with ALL the evidence?

 

[Bunyip]

Anyone who is THOROUGHLY familiar with ALL the evidence knows that Jesus was a real historical figure whose heart started beating again and wounds began to heal after his lifeless body was wrapped in a burial shroud.

In anticipation of replies from those who are less informed, I did say THOROUGHLY informed of ALL the evidence. And since this takes many years, there will be too much to post here, so just keep reading and especially read things which challenge your understanding.

You forget that we have no eye witness record of any of those events. None.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

We have no eyewitness accounts period. For eyewitnesses like Thucydides or Caesar, we have copies of manuscripts supposedly written by them that date from a thousand years or so after they died.

 

[`mud]

Ahhhh...memories of the evidence of absences of witnesses of the acts.
Write me another book, this one is not evidence.
And so is not the writings of any.
~
'mud

 

[God's Avatars]

Probably, but what the God's Avatars have done (for wealth and power) with the "history" of his life is an altogether different matter.

 

[steeltoes]

You forget that we have no eye witness record of any of those events. None.

What do we need eyewitnesses for when we have the words of anonymous scripture writers?

 

[Bunyip]

We have no eyewitness accounts period. For eyewitnesses like Thucydides or Caesar, we have copies of manuscripts supposedly written by them that date from a thousand years or so after they died.

For Jesus you do not even have copies of eye witness accounts - for Caesar we do.

 

[`mud]

I sometimes think that all the 'supposed eye witnesses' were in Sauls dreams.
~
'mud

 

[God's Avatars]

Whether or not there was an actual Jesus of Nazareth is not really as important as how men have used the gospels as a means of controlling populations, filling their coffers, and acquiring larger and larger kingdoms. Whether or not the sermon on the mount (as an example) is fiction, it is a spiritually enlightening tale, especially given the era from which it spawned. The real story, however, is in the misuse of faith by greedy, narcissistic men in their pursuit of wealth and power.

 

[outhouse]

Whether or not there was an actual Jesus of Nazareth is not really as important as how men have used the gospels as a means of controlling populations, filling their coffers, and acquiring larger and larger kingdoms. Whether or not the sermon on the mount (as an example) is fiction, it is a spiritually enlightening tale, especially given the era from which it spawned. The real story, however, is in the misuse of faith by greedy, narcissistic men in their pursuit of wealth and power.

That's another topic. It also has nothing to do with its first 300 years, or the possibility of a man.

 

[steeltoes]

Whether or not there was an actual Jesus of Nazareth is not really as important as how men have used the gospels as a means of controlling populations, filling their coffers, and acquiring larger and larger kingdoms. Whether or not the sermon on the mount (as an example) is fiction, it is a spiritually enlightening tale, especially given the era from which it spawned. The real story, however, is in the misuse of faith by greedy, narcissistic men in their pursuit of wealth and power.

It's not important but the thing is is that declaring Jesus was historical is a cottage industry in itself, it's just more of the same 'filling of the coffers' for those that write to assure people that their saviour really existed.

 

[outhouse]

Talmud

= worthless here for any jesus historicity

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

to-----leibowde84 Member
The number of people looking at this Thread is seven thousand
And the number of posts and comments are 440
And my participation bearing the number 441
And my observation that the participants in the topic of Christians who do not believe in God
And who profess atheism
And Category absent from the dialogue and participation Muslims
I think that the reason for their absence is the reason why the following
If Jesus fell from history
The Qur'an and Islam automatically lapse
For this reason I think that this question is hitting two birds with one stone
Islam and Christianity
This is my observation on this subject
I wish you success in your search for the truth Permanent