Did jesus become a curse or a blessing for us

[free spirit]

TO SOJOURNER

Conaminated? It was written, edited, redacted, compiled and understood by men. What do you mean by "contaminated?" That the text was changed? Do you not know how fluid these texts were for hundreds of years? They didn't become fixed until the canonization process in the 400's.

Well than if it was fluid the more reason we have to question them, or do we want to be gullable, yes, it is easier to be a follower than a leader.
"CONTAMINATED" = the words of men "lies" were put among the "true" words of God. only those with the mind of Christ can reconnise the difference. Example, (IT IS A LIE THAT HE BECAME A CURSE FOR US)

 

[sojourner]

only those with the mind of Christ can reconnise the difference.

Apparently, the mind of Christ doesn't know how to spell.

Well than if it was fluid the more reason we have to question them,

Ok...

"CONTAMINATED" = the words of men "lies" were put among the "true" words of God.

True words of God?
Isn't that a bit overstated?
And tantamount to idolatry?

 

[free spirit]

how calvinistic of you...

Let's see...first of all, christ became flesh (which is sin), but he "died sinless," which means that, either you're not clear on your theology, or you believe that christ wasn't in the flesh when he died. Yes he was in the flesh which is sin but he never sinned, so his soul was sinless,

oh, right, right, right! because that's not really "what the bible says" ... According to ... Whom? You? Why should we believe you?
No conviction come from within i am only pointing the way or sterring as it were.

no, i'm saying:

You can't change the theology present in the text, claiming that "it must be corrupt," just because it happens to not make sense to you. Chances are greater that it's your theology that's skewed, than that it's the text that's skewed.

please read deuteronomy 21 - 23 in context with werse 22, and you will see what is necessary to became accursed of God.

 

[Enoch07]

How Calvinistic of you...

Let's see...First of all, Christ became flesh (which is sin), but he "died sinless," which means that, either you're not clear on your theology, or you believe that Christ wasn't in the flesh when he died.

He died sinless because He was Baptized by.......John the Baptist, which gets rid of original sin and any other sin if there was any.

 

[free spirit]

TO Sojorner

Apparently, the mind of Christ doesn't know how to spell.

Ok... Yes that is the down side, He gives you the understanding of the scripture and God's will, but the rest he does not touch, it fits with his idea to use simple fisherman to spread God's truth.
So if I was more educated would it make the message more believable?

True words of God?
Isn't that a bit overstated?
And tantamount to idolatry?

 

[free spirit]

To Enoch7

He died sinless because He was Baptized by.......John the Baptist, which gets rid of original sin and any other sin if there was any.

No baptism does not get rid of original sin, for the original sin was the sin of COVET
and i have yet to meet a person without covets in their life. remenber Lucifer coveted God's glory, enticed by the devil Adam also coveted the knowledge equal to God. SO Lucifer contaminated Adam with his sin. And we all today selfishly covet what pleases us, lots of money, lots of women, lots of power, lots of pleasure, mixed with a lots af deprived things like bestiality homosexuality murder pedophilia you name it, it is out there.:candle:

 

[sojourner]

He gives you the understanding of the scripture and God's will, but the rest he does not touch, it fits with his idea to use simple fisherman to spread God's truth.
So if I was more educated would it make the message more believable?

Do you realize that those "simple fishermen" wouldn't have been able to get the word out without someone who could write? The Greek that Luke uses is high Greek. In today's terms, that meant that Luke would have been a Harvard grad.
so, yes. Education would make your message more believable.

 

[sojourner]

No conviction come from within i am only pointing the way or sterring as it were.

Right now, the only thing "sterring" is yourself into a ditch of embarrassment.

 

[Hospitaller]

i dont think being given the chance for eternal salvation is a curse.
Jesus and Mary were both born immaculatley. No sin. ever.

 

[ayani]

well, i'd argue that He was certainly cursed and shamed for us. in that aspect, He became a curse. no one looking on Him as He died publicly would have said of Him "what a blessed man!"

yet He became a blessing exactly because of that death, and what it was shown to accomplish three days later. we are blessed through the One who became a curse for us, and in doing so became the greatest blessing sent to man.

 

[ayani]

i dont think being given the chance for eternal salvation is a curse.
Jesus and Mary were both born immaculatley. No sin. ever.

friend, the Gospels say as much about Jesus, but not Mary. i understand that Catholic tradition and beliefs say otherwise, but the Gospel narratives would fail to indicate that Mary was sinless or born free of sin.

Jesus, surely. but the woman whom God chose to bring the Savior into the world in human form, Biblically speaking, no.

 

[Hospitaller]

friend, the Gospels say as much about Jesus, but not Mary. i understand that Catholic tradition and beliefs say otherwise, but the Gospel narratives would fail to indicate that Mary was sinless or born free of sin.

Jesus, surely. but the woman whom God chose to bring the Savior into the world in human form, Biblically speaking, no.

strange how the woman who God himself was in for 9 months and the woman who would instruct and educate Jesus would be a sinful person when God could do something about it.

But, i understand many do not believe in Mary at all.

 

[ayani]

Hospitaller ~

i certainly believe in Mary, but not in the same way i'd believe in God's Son, or God Himself. i am a follower of Jesus, and as such i take the Gospel narratives to be complete and sufficient information on who Jesus is, how to follow Him, and how to be saved. tradition can have an honored place, but only if it points the truths of God's Word to as opposed to contradicting or adding to the scriptures.

scripturally, Jesus did not need a sinless mother to raise or give birth to Him. His sinless nature came not from His mother, but from his birth of God's Holy Spirit. and His innate understanding of the things of God came not from Mary, but from His being God's eternal Son, and God made man (Luke 2:41-52).

 

[Hospitaller]

Hospitaller ~

i certainly believe in Mary, but not in the same way i'd believe in God's Son, or God Himself. i am a follower of Jesus, and as such i take the Gospel narratives to be complete and sufficient information on who Jesus is, how to follow Him, and how to be saved. tradition can have an honored place, but only if it points the truths of God's Word to as opposed to contradicting or adding to the scriptures.

scripturally, Jesus did not need a sinless mother to raise or give birth to Him. His sinless nature came not from His mother, but from his birth of God's Holy Spirit. and His innate understanding of the things of God came not from Mary, but from His being God's eternal Son, and God made man (Luke 2:41-52).

I understand, although its a real shame that our scriptures are probably different from your scriptures.

 

[ayani]

I understand, although its a real shame that our scriptures are probably different from your scriptures.

not so far as the Gospel narratives are concerned, friend. both your Bible and mine contain only four Gospels, not more or less. and i would expect that in both of our Bibles, these Gospel narratives would contain the same information, quotes, passages, and verses.

 

[Hospitaller]

not so far as the Gospel narratives are concerned, friend. both your Bible and mine contain only four Gospels, not more or less. and i would expect that in both of our Bibles, these Gospel narratives would contain the same information, quotes, passages, and verses.

If you can, please listen to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

ACTS Catholic Apologetics - Archbishop Fulton Sheen mp3 Audio

select the one that says "The Mother of Jesus"

Im not sure it will answer the question about Mary's sinlessness, but it will definetley show you what we believe about Her.

 

[free spirit]

If you can, please listen to Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

ACTS Catholic Apologetics - Archbishop Fulton Sheen mp3 Audio

select the one that says "The Mother of Jesus"

Im not sure it will answer the question about Mary's sinlessness, but it will definetley show you what we believe about Her.

Yes the Catholic church is a good church now, but there has been a time that it was not, in these time the church accumulated wrong teaching. Because, Mary the mother of Jesus is certainly a blessed person but definativerly not immaculate: as you know flesh and sin is one and the same, therefore she had sin in her fleshly body. Jesus become flesh therefore he was made sin, but he never sinned, he is the only one that never sinned. Do not be deceived he is the only saviour, we should count Mary blessed full stop.

 

[free spirit]

well, i'd argue that He was certainly cursed and shamed for us. in that aspect, He became a curse. no one looking on Him as He died publicly would have said of Him "what a blessed man!"

yet He became a blessing exactly because of that death, and what it was shown to accomplish three days later. we are blessed through the One who became a curse for us, and in doing so became the greatest blessing sent to man.

I think I know your meaning, but the question is "did he became accursed of God," and if he did when did he became unacuursed?

 

[ayani]

Hospitaller ~

i am a Christ-follower friend, not a church follower. this goes not only for the Catholic church, but for any church or denomination. i've since learned that it's not a church or church culture which saves a person, it's God's Son.

i want to follow Jesus, and i rely on what the Gospel accounts tell us about Him, His words, teachings, Person, and reason for coming. no where in the Gospels does Jesus indicate that Mary can save us, help us, or redeem us. no where is it indicated that Mary should be an object of veneration or prayers, though she is certainly recognized as blessed. no where is it indicated that she is sinless, or immaculate. she calls God her Savior in Luke 1:46-48, and herself a servant. why would a sinless person need a Savior?

the Catholic church does have many teachings and ideas which are popular and widely explained and defended, often using scripture. but if the Lord does not indicate it Himself, i see no reason to do it or believe it. it is Jesus' name which made all the difference in my life, friend. and nothing i read from His lips indicates that His mother is to be revered or adored, or can save me.

 

[free spirit]

Do you realize that those "simple fishermen" wouldn't have been able to get the word out without someone who could write? The Greek that Luke uses is high Greek. In today's terms, that meant that Luke would have been a Harvard grad.
so, yes. Education would make your message more believable.

Yes and the apostles used scribes also. the knowledge of the scriptures is a gift, so I am rich but I haven't earned it, does that make me less rich? no, but i can be generous without been pompous. It is written, " For consider your calling brethren, that there were no many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; but God has chosen the uneducated men of the world to shame the wise. and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things, which are strong, and the base things of the world and the despised, God has chosen the things that are not coveted, that he might nullify the things that are. That no man should boast before God."