Did Jesus become Son of God in 313 AD?

[*Paul*]

THE APOLOGY OF ARISTIDES THE PHILOSOPHER. (2nd century)
Translated from the Syriac.
​

The Christians, then, trace the beginning of their
religion from Jesus the Messiah; and he is named
the Son of God Most High. And it is said that God
came down from heaven, and from a Hebrew virgin
assumed and clothed himself with flesh; and the Son
of God lived in a daughter of man. This is taught
in the gospel, as it is called, which a short time ago
was preached among them; and you also if you will
read therein, may perceive the power which belongs
to it.

THE DEMONSTRATION OF THE APOSTOLIC PREACHING Estimated Range of Dating: 175-185 C.E.
Since then faith is the perpetuation of our salvation, we must needs bestow much pains on the maintenance thereof, in order that we may have a true comprehension of the things that are. Now faith occasions this for us; even as the Elders, the disciples of the Apostles, have handed down to us. First of all it bids us bear in mind that we have received baptism for the remission of sins, in the name of God the Father, and in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was incarnate and died and rose again, and in the Holy Spirit of God.

Epsitle of Barnabus: 80-120 ad
Barnabas 5:9
And when He chose His own apostles who were to proclaim His Gospel,
who that He might show that He came not to call the righteous but
sinners were sinners above every sin, then He manifested Himself
to be the Son of God.
Barnabas 5:11
Therefore the Son of God came in the flesh to this end, that He might
sum up the complete tale of their sins against those who persecuted
and slew His prophets.
Barnabas 7:2
If then the Son of God, being Lord and future Judge of quick and
dead, suffered that His wound might give us life, let us believe that
the Son of God could not suffer except for our sakes.

1 Clement: 84-140 ad
1Clem 36:4
but of His Son the Master said thus, Thou art My Son, I this day
have begotten thee. Ask of Me, and I will give Thee the Gentiles
for Thine inheritance, and the ends of the earth for Thy
possession.

1Clem 36:5
And again He saith unto Him Sit Thou on My right hand, until I make
Thine enemies a footstool for Thy feet.

1Clem 59:2
but we shall be guiltless of this sin. And we will ask, with
instancy of prayer and supplication, that the Creator of the universe
may guard intact unto the end the number that hath been numbered of
His elect throughout the whole world, through His beloved Son Jesus
Christ, through whom He called us from darkness to light, from
ignorance to the full knowledge of the glory of His Name.

Polycarp to the phillipians: Estimated Range of Dating: 110-140 C.E.
CHAPTER 12
The need of forgiveness -- Prayer for blessing

1 For I am confident that you are well versed in the Scriptures, and from you nothing is hid; but to me this is not granted. Only, as it is said in these Scriptures, "Be ye angry and sin not," and "Let not the sun go down upon your wrath." Blessed is the man who remembers this, and I believe that it is so with you. 2 Now may God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, and the "eternal Priest" himself, Jesus Christ, the Son of God, build you up in faith and truth, and in all gentleness, and without wrath, and in patience, and in longsuffering, and endurance, and purity, and may he give you lot and part with his saints, and to us with you, and to all under heaven who shall believe in our Lord and God Jesus Christ and in his "Father who raised him from the dead." 3 "Pray for all the saints. Pray also for the Emperors," and for potentates, and princes,
and for "those who persecute you and hate you," and for "the enemies of the Cross" that "your fruit may be manifest among all men, that you may be perfected" in him.

Shepherd of Hermas: Estimated Range of Dating: 100-160 C.E.
2[6]:8 For the Lord swear concerning His Son, that those who denied their Lord should be rejected from their life, even they that are now about to deny Him in the coming days; but to those who denied Him aforetime, to them mercy was given of His great loving kindness.
5[58]:2 The estate is this world, and the lord of the estate is He that created all things, and set them in order, and endowed them with power; and the servant is the Son of God, and the vines are this people whom He Himself planted;

Justin Martyr: Estimated Range of Dating: 150-160 C.E.
And the Word, being His Son, came to us, having put on flesh, revealing both Himself and the Father, giving to us in Himself resurrection from the dead, and eternal life afterwards. And this is Jesus Christ, our Saviour and Lord

And all the scripture that comprehend posted.

 

[may]

"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17.
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Epsitle of Barnabus: 80-120 ad
Barnabas 5:9
And when He chose His own apostles who were to proclaim His Gospel,
who that He might show that He came not to call the righteous but
sinners were sinners above every sin, then He manifested Himself
to be the Son of God.
Barnabas 5:11
Therefore the Son of God came in the flesh to this end, that He might
sum up the complete tale of their sins against those who persecuted
and slew His prophets.
Barnabas 7:2
If then the Son of God, being Lord and future Judge of quick and
dead, suffered that His wound might give us life, let us believe that
the Son of God could not suffer except for our sakes.

The Gospel of Barnabus which was found on him in his tomb reads a little different then this.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17.
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."

So what are we to understand exactly from this verse. And I wonder how trinitarians interpret this verse since it is God speaking to someone about Himself. And how he chose himself. And to Listen to Himself.

Also you never answered my questions. Like why should the JW testimony and interpretation be accepted since it is a somewhat newer denomination of the church. Who is the founder of the JW. When did it start. Why should it be accepted as opposed to the first of the historical church fathers like the Catholic. or Eastern Ortho. they are the keepers of the original manuscripts. Which sets of manuscripts did you guys use in your interpretations. The founder of the JW was he one of the ones who interpreted it. How much influence did his teachings play. What was his history, education, etc.

I have other question but these are just to start. I am curious to know what has drawn you and others to this style of Christianity and opposed to the more tradiitonal and orthodox churches.

 

[Djamila]

Thanks for all your participation, everyone. It was really nice to get some answers and not fighting!

 

[may]

So what are we to understand exactly from this verse. And I wonder how trinitarians interpret this verse since it is God speaking to someone about Himself. And how he chose himself. And to Listen to Himself.

Also you never answered my questions. Like why should the JW testimony and interpretation be accepted since it is a somewhat newer denomination of the church. Who is the founder of the JW. When did it start. Why should it be accepted as opposed to the first of the historical church fathers like the Catholic. or Eastern Ortho. they are the keepers of the original manuscripts. Which sets of manuscripts did you guys use in your interpretations. The founder of the JW was he one of the ones who interpreted it. How much influence did his teachings play. What was his history, education, etc.

I have other question but these are just to start. I am curious to know what has drawn you and others to this style of Christianity and opposed to the more tradiitonal and orthodox churches.

we can see from these verses that Jesus is not God , the bible does not teach the trinity , it is a later manmade doctrine , Jehovahs witnesses do not take on manmade doctrines we teach true bible teachings . so those who are faithful to Jesus teachings in the bible are the ones to listen too. matthew 24;45-47
Have you ever wondered . . .
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that their religion is the only right one? here is a link it tells about their modern developments

 

[XAAX]

Constantine may very well have declared Jesus Christ to be the Son of God. I have declared Him to be the Son of God, as have millions. I find it quite amusing, however, to think that Constantine's opinion on the matter is even worth considering. He was hardly in a position to be able to state with any authority whatsoever on the parentage of Jesus Christ. Thousands upon thousands of men and women. moreover, believed Him to be the Son of God long before Constantine came upon the scene.

The doctrine of the Trinity was established in 325 A.D. I'm sure there were some individuals present at the Council at Nicaea to whom Constantine's opinion mattered. Why, I'll never know.

What I don't get from this paradox you speak of is this: If constantine's opinion did not matter and wasn't even worth considering. Why do christians follow his creation(it was his council that decided what would and would not be acceptable for christians to believe, yet he didn't even believe the story), which is the christian bible?

Someone answer that for me...please without quoting the book in question...

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Preach The Nett... the book to me is filled with a bunch basic situations that have me shaking my head.....

The old testiment... Genisis starts off not making sense... with the whole i'm so busy creating....the WORLD...not the Universe...the WORLD that now I (GOD...the almighty) have to rest now.......AHHHHH

Now that I have rested i think me and my boyzzzz will create mand and make man in our image... Cause i'm SOOOOO tired I can't possibly do this by byself.... Wait.....Wait.....why did I even need to create those angels...oh yeah..... it gives me tim to rest some more.....well here it goes....

Now that i (ohh....ohh...i mean WE... teee heee heee) have creted man and his mate and told him what not to do...even though I know he's going to do it anyway..... I'm going to the mall....

Hey... i'm back

uhhh oooohhh...I dun up and lost my humans...say humans where you at?.... why you hiding from me?....what you hiding cause you naked?....mannnn who done told you, you was naked??? Yo readers see how I like to question my creation even though I know what they are going to say???

Now Eve who tricked you....??

Watch this people..... you gone laugh..casue I know what she gone say...she gone say blame it on somebody else.

Preach The Nett... this is some of the things i have a problem with when it comes to that book and others like it. Now the book that some regard as fact and is the cornerstone of their way of life it filled with non-sense. It is true that there are some fundamentals that we can live by but they're nothing new.

I know I have gone and made some on upset. But I don't care..... Bring it on !!!!!

 

[XAAX]

Preach The Nett... the book to me is filled with a bunch basic situations that have me shaking my head.....

The old testiment... Genisis starts off not making sense... with the whole i'm so busy creating....the WORLD...not the Universe...the WORLD that now I (GOD...the almighty) have to rest now.......AHHHHH

Now that I have rested i think me and my boyzzzz will create mand and make man in our image... Cause i'm SOOOOO tired I can't possibly do this by byself.... Wait.....Wait.....why did I even need to create those angels...oh yeah..... it gives me tim to rest some more.....well here it goes....

Now that i (ohh....ohh...i mean WE... teee heee heee) have creted man and his mate and told him what not to do...even though I know he's going to do it anyway..... I'm going to the mall....

Hey... i'm back

uhhh oooohhh...I dun up and lost my humans...say humans where you at?.... why you hiding from me?....what you hiding cause you naked?....mannnn who done told you, you was naked??? Yo readers see how I like to question my creation even though I know what they are going to say???

Now Eve who tricked you....??

Watch this people..... you gone laugh..casue I know what she gone say...she gone say blame it on somebody else.

Preach The Nett... this is some of the things i have a problem with when it comes to that book and others like it. Now the book that some regard as fact and is the cornerstone of their way of life it filled with non-sense. It is true that there are some fundamentals that we can live by but they're nothing new.

I know I have gone and made some on upset. But I don't care..... Bring it on !!!!!

The whole story of genesis is easy to understand dre if you just realize what it is. It’s a story. Jews thousands of years ago had no knowledge of how the earth was formed or how we evolved or anything of that nature. So since they had no clue, here came the story. Blamo…There is a universe, then God went into great detail as to all the things he created. Unfortunately leaving out any species that they had never seen before(key point to take note of there), but put a blanket statement that covered anything God might have just left out. Like lets say, the dinosaurs. That’s a pretty big omission, but ok. Then he created man, not both, but man. The reason is simple for this. The jews wanted to establish the males as the authoritative leader of this religion. Since they hated the equal treatment that those damn women got in the pagan religions. There supposed to be our servants.
Anyway to sum the whole thing up is that it was a good creation of the universe story that set man up to be in power. Unknown to many people was the fact that the whole story of Adam and Eve is symbolically based on the Qubalah.

 

[Mister Emu]

If constantine's opinion did not matter and wasn't even worth considering. Why do christians follow his creation, which is the christian bible?

The Bible is not Constantine's creation. The Biblical Canon was not produced/created/whatever at the Council of Nicea.

it was his council that decided what would and would not be acceptable for christians

He called it, but he had no say in what those beliefs were.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

What I don't get from this paradox you speak of is this: If constantine's opinion did not matter and wasn't even worth considering. Why do christians follow his creation(it was his council that decided what would and would not be acceptable for christians to believe, yet he didn't even believe the story), which is the christian bible?

Someone answer that for me...please without quoting the book in question...

Inerrancy. The dogma of inerrancy prevents believers from looking outside The Bible for truth. If the Bible is perfect and truth lies within, then there is no reason to look without. For the Bible to be perfect, it must also be complete. God must have led the council to put only those books and letters into the Bible that God wanted, thus, only those books and letters are scripture.

 

[michel]

The whole story of genesis is easy to understand dre if you just realize what it is. It’s a story. Jews thousands of years ago had no knowledge of how the earth was formed or how we evolved or anything of that nature. So since they had no clue, here came the story. Blamo…There is a universe, then God went into great detail as to all the things he created. Unfortunately leaving out any species that they had never seen before(key point to take note of there), but put a blanket statement that covered anything God might have just left out. Like lets say, the dinosaurs. That’s a pretty big omission, but ok. Then he created man, not both, but man. The reason is simple for this. The jews wanted to establish the males as the authoritative leader of this religion. Since they hated the equal treatment that those damn women got in the pagan religions. There supposed to be our servants.
Anyway to sum the whole thing up is that it was a good creation of the universe story that set man up to be in power. Unknown to many people was the fact that the whole story of Adam and Eve is symbolically based on the Qubalah.

Since they hated the equal treatment that those damn women got in the pagan religions. There supposed to be our servants.

That sounds a tad misogynistic!

They weren't; they were the equals of men, but with each sex having duties allocated to them. That is why in our Evolution - in particular the wish of women to be able to step in men's shoes in every facet of life, has caused so much strife....

In England, the birth rate has been dropping, over the years; women are waking up to the fact that their biological clocks are ticking away..and that maybe - just maybe, they have been focussing on the wrong aspect of their fulfilments in life.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

we can see from these verses that Jesus is not God , the bible does not teach the trinity , it is a later manmade doctrine , Jehovahs witnesses do not take on manmade doctrines we teach true bible teachings . so those who are faithful to Jesus teachings in the bible are the ones to listen too. matthew 24;45-47
Have you ever wondered . . .
Do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe that their religion is the only right one? here is a link it tells about their modern developments

You still have not answered my questions and the site answers none also.

 

[James the Persian]

The Gospel of Barnabus which was found on him in his tomb reads a little different then this.

The 'Gospel' of Barnabas is well known, and easily demonstrated as such, to be a very late forgery. It is not even remotely possible the Barnabus actually penned it and the fact that some Muslims still trot this tired old nonsense out frankly amazes me. The 'Gospel of Barnabas' is about as biblical as the Da Vinci Code. The Epistle of Barnabas, on the other hand, has nothing to do with it and is a genuine early Christian writing.

James

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

The 'Gospel' of Barnabas is well known, and easily demonstrated as such, to be a very late forgery. It is not even remotely possible the Barnabus actually penned it and the fact that some Muslims still trot this tired old nonsense out frankly amazes me. The 'Gospel of Barnabas' is about as biblical as the Da Vinci Code. The Epistle of Barnabas, on the other hand, has nothing to do with it and is a genuine early Christian writing.

James

If you say so. Where is your evidence besides someone who wants you to think it is a forgery to say it is. Where is your evidence. show to me the verses in the bible are actual accounts that are not altered and have been preserved or show me that your interpretation is the one I should accept.

 

[James the Persian]

If you say so. Where is your evidence besides someone who wants you to think it is a forgery to say it is. Where is your evidence. show to me the verses in the bible are actual accounts that are not altered and have been preserved or show me that your interpretation is the one I should accept.

No, no. You're the one who is suggesting that the Gospel of Barnabas is genuine. It's clearly not in the canon of any church and that's really all I need to show that it isn't a Biblical text. You provide whatever evidence you have that this 'gospel' is genuine, and see how long it takes to knock it flat. There's no conspiracy to make people think the Gospel of Barnabas isn't genuine - it's the concensus of just about everyone who's come into contact with the text. It's really only a few Muslim apologists with vested interests who continue to claim otherwise, in contradiction to the clear evidence.

James

 

[Quiddity]

What on earth did they teach you at school? Constantine did not make any such declaration in 313AD. There is no doubt of that. What he did do in 313 was produce the Edict of Milan which officially tolerated and ended the persecution of Christians. That is all, he did not make it the state religion (that wasn't done until the reign of Theodosius in the late 4th century).

He certainly made no theological statements whatsoever and, had he done so, the Church would inevitably have ignored him. They'd just weathered the worst persecution, under Diocletian, that they had ever suffered without compromise after all. Constantine did call Council of Nicea (in 325) at the urging of Christian bishops who were concerned about the new teachings of Arius, but the council did not invent the Trinity and Constantine did not make theology there either, he merely presided and used his secular power to enforce the results (despite initially being in favour of the Arians, which completely demolishes the usual arguments).

Neither the Orthodox party nor the Arians considered that there was anything to dispute about the divinity of Christ. Both considered him to have been the Son of God Incarnate. The dispute lay solely in whether or not the Son (and by implication the Holy Spirit, though this was not spelled out until the later problems leading to the calling of Constantinople I) was a created god. The Orthodox view was that He was begotten and not created, the Arian that He was a lesser god created by the Father (i.e. there was a time when He was not). The Trinity was not invented at Nicea. It wasn't even debated. What was debated was whether or not we had a Trinity in the Orthodox sense or something closer to the LDS view. It's quite easy to show Trinitarian references in the Ante-Nicene Fathers.

I second that. What school is teaching that Constantine is the originator of any church doctrine? :areyoucra

Well said James.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

No, no. You're the one who is suggesting that the Gospel of Barnabas is genuine. It's clearly not in the canon of any church and that's really all I need to show that it isn't a Biblical text.

considering the procedure in which things where compiled and authenticated and preserved and interpreted from beginning to end that proves nothing. And judging from what you are saying since it was at one point a part of the beliefs of some early christians. So at one point it was correct and now it is incorrect.

I guess you are validating the Protestant movement as well as the mormon and JW, because according to them all those who preceded them had it wrong. so who exactly has it right then.

You provide whatever evidence you have that this 'gospel' is genuine, and see how long it takes to knock it flat. There's no conspiracy to make people think the Gospel of Barnabas isn't genuine - it's the concensus of just about everyone who's come into contact with the text.

Who, give me names of people scholars and their evidence.

It's really only a few Muslim apologists with vested interests who continue to claim otherwise, in contradiction to the clear evidence.

but you have provided no evidencd so how is it clear.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I second that. What school is teaching that Constantine is the originator of any church doctrine? :areyoucra

Well said James.

I do not think she means he is the originator of the doctrine themselves. He was just a intrigual part in conforming what is now know as Christianity together and made it now a state religion. that is what she means I think we know He originated no church doctrine for it was not his religion to begin with.

 

[Quiddity]

I do not think she means he is the originator of the doctrine themselves. He was just a intrigual part in conforming what is now know as Christianity together and made it now a state religion. that is what she means I think we know He originated no church doctrine for it was not his religion to begin with.

Thanks for the clarification. If indeed it's true, I have no qualms with it.