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Did Jesus become Son of God in 313 AD?

James the Persian

Dreptcredincios Crestin
Mujahid Mohammed said:
considering the procedure in which things where compiled and authenticated and preserved and interpreted from beginning to end that proves nothing. And judging from what you are saying since it was at one point a part of the beliefs of some early christians. So at one point it was correct and now it is incorrect.
No, the Gospel of Barnabas was never part of the beliefs of any Christian group. There is a great deal of evidence that it cannot have been compiled earlier than the 14th century AD and it was probably written in Spain (interestingly, a Spain not yet freed from the Moors). The Epistle of Barnabas not only was but still is a perfectly genuine Christian document, just not part of the canon (and you clearly have no real grasp of either the process of the formation of the canon, nor what it means for a text to be either canonical or not). The Gospel of Barnabas was never correct, never accepted by anyone apart from a few Muslim apologists with vested interests. Even your story of it being found on the body of St. Barnabus is a fabrication. The text found in his tomb was, as unanimously described by contemporaries of the discovery, the Gospel of Matthew. Forgive me if I tend to disregard the opinions of 'scholars' who are willing to make barefaced lies to support their position.

I guess you are validating the Protestant movement as well as the mormon and JW, because according to them all those who preceded them had it wrong. so who exactly has it right then.
No, the people preceding me had it right - none of them ever accepted this 'gospel'. You're having a laugh, accusing an Orthodox Christian of change. You really have no clue! Our beliefs have not changed at all, even the Liturgy we use every week is centuries older than this rubbish you claim Barnabas penned.

Who, give me names of people scholars and their evidence.
but you have provided no evidencd so how is it clear.
I presume from this response that you are incapable of producing any positive evidence for the validity of this forgery. So be it.

Would you accept this as a reference to its being a fake? (doubt it as you clearly have a vested interest):

As regards the "Gospel of Barnabas" itself, there is no question that it is a medieval forgery ... It contains anachronisms which can date only from the Middle Ages and not before, and shows a garbled comprehension of Islamic doctrines, calling the Prophet the "Messiah", which Islam does not claim for him. Besides it farcical notion of sacred history, stylistically it is a mediocre parody of the Gospels, as the writings of Baha Allah are of the Koran. (Cyril Glassé, The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1989, p. 65, bold added)

As to evidence, how much do you want? Just as few examples, the author:
  • Clearly doesn't understand that Christ and Messiah mean the same thing, proving he's not a first century Hellenised Jew.
  • Clearly has no grasp of the geography of the Holy Land, proving he'd never been there
  • Refers to coinage that only existed in medieval Spain (do you think Barnabas used currency fromn the future?)
  • Refers to jubilees of 100 years, which only occurred under the medieval Roman Catholic Church (they were supposed to be 50 years in Judaism)
  • Refers to Eve eating an apple, even though this popular belief is solely a construct of the fourth century Latin Vulgate translation, thus putting the text's composition late in time and somewhere in the west.
  • Appears to quote Dante's Divine Comedy on more than one occasion, setting the text firmly in the Renaissance and contradicting Islamic cosmology in the process.
There's plenty more, but those will do for starters.

The case for the 'Gospel' of Barnabas being genuine is so poor it's untrue. Anyone who claims that it isn't, clearly prefers their own fantasy world over reality, I'm afraid. Look, I respect your right to believe what you believe, even though I'm convinced you're wrong, but you lose all credibility when you try to prop up those beliefs with a spurious document. It just makes the Islamic case look so much weaker when you see Muslim apologists resort to such ridiculous measures. If you can't argue your point without making things up, how much of a point can you actually have?

James
 

Mujahid Mohammed

Well-Known Member
JamesThePersian said:
Mujahid Mohammed said:
considering the procedure in which things where compiled and authenticated and preserved and interpreted from beginning to end that proves nothing. And judging from what you are saying since it was at one point a part of the beliefs of some early christians. So at one point it was correct and now it is incorrect.
No, the Gospel of Barnabas was never part of the beliefs of any Christian group.
If you say so, and you will probably say the same for any of the other gospels considered to be Apocrypha.
There is a great deal of evidence that it cannot have been compiled earlier than the 14th century AD and it was probably written in Spain (interestingly, a Spain not yet freed from the Moors).
where exactly? give me a source. thanks

The Epistle of Barnabas not only was but still is a perfectly genuine Christian document,
Genuine? None of your documents are genuine for they have been all been altered.
just not part of the canon (and you clearly have no real grasp of either the process of the formation of the canon, nor what it means for a text to be either canonical or not).
You assume alot and you know what they say. I know alot more on the formation of the canon then you think. And it strikes me as odd that someone who claims to know so much about the history of it can ever validate anything that is contained within them. Since as you say you know so much then you know that no 2 scriptures are alike and there are over 250,000, you know that even in the beginning there were 100's of sects of Christianity, you know that the scribes changed the word of God. You know that they are not sure who wrote the Canon's. You know that there is a significant problem with validity.

The Gospel of Barnabas was never correct, never accepted by anyone apart from a few Muslim apologists with vested interests. Even your story of it being found on the body of St. Barnabus is a fabrication. The text found in his tomb was, as unanimously described by contemporaries of the discovery, the Gospel of Matthew.
Proof of this, you got a article or book written by the person who did this. anything that would help validate your statement.
Forgive me if I tend to disregard the opinions of 'scholars' who are willing to make barefaced lies to support their position.
Like scholars who say the bible has been changed because they have actually read the original text.

No, the people preceding me had it right - none of them ever accepted this 'gospel'. You're having a laugh, accusing an Orthodox Christian of change. You really have no clue! Our beliefs have not changed at all, even the Liturgy we use every week is centuries older than this rubbish you claim Barnabas penned.
No I am not accusing you guys of change, but i am sure many of your christian counterparts will disagree with you and that is something you guys need to work out.

You are just as clueless my friend.


I presume from this response that you are incapable of producing any positive evidence for the validity of this forgery. So be it.
Now how does that make sense, you say its a fake yet you want me to provide the evidence for your statement, that's rich.

Would you accept this as a reference to its being a fake? (doubt it as you clearly have a vested interest):

As regards the "Gospel of Barnabas" itself, there is no question that it is a medieval forgery ... It contains anachronisms which can date only from the Middle Ages and not before, and shows a garbled comprehension of Islamic doctrines,
This is not a reference of anything really just a statement.

calling the Prophet the "Messiah", which Islam does not claim for him.
Claim for who exactly?
Besides it farcical notion of sacred history, stylistically it is a mediocre parody of the Gospels, as the writings of Baha Allah are of the Koran. (Cyril Glassé, The Concise Encyclopedia of Islam, San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1989, p. 65, bold added)

As to evidence, how much do you want? Just as few examples, the author:
  • Clearly doesn't understand that Christ and Messiah mean the same thing, proving he's not a first century Hellenised Jew.
  • Clearly has no grasp of the geography of the Holy Land, proving he'd never been there
  • Refers to coinage that only existed in medieval Spain (do you think Barnabas used currency fromn the future?)
  • Refers to jubilees of 100 years, which only occurred under the medieval Roman Catholic Church (they were supposed to be 50 years in Judaism)
  • Refers to Eve eating an apple, even though this popular belief is solely a construct of the fourth century Latin Vulgate translation, thus putting the text's composition late in time and somewhere in the west.
  • Appears to quote Dante's Divine Comedy on more than one occasion, setting the text firmly in the Renaissance and contradicting Islamic cosmology in the process.
There's plenty more, but those will do for starters.
This is nothing. Just statements.

The case for the 'Gospel' of Barnabas being genuine is so poor it's untrue. Anyone who claims that it isn't, clearly prefers their own fantasy world over reality, I'm afraid. Look, I respect your right to believe what you believe, even though I'm convinced you're wrong, but you lose all credibility when you try to prop up those beliefs with a spurious document. It just makes the Islamic case look so much weaker when you see Muslim apologists resort to such ridiculous measures. If you can't argue your point without making things up, how much of a point can you actually have?

James
You should ask yourself the same thing. Maybe evidence is a hard thing for you guys to grasp. It is understandable considering the scriptures you are working with now. I mean you guys cannot even come to a concensus on if God and Jesus are equal or seperate.

Give me a source where they do a comparitive of the scripture. I need something a little more concise. and your book of reference, just because somebody writes a book on Islam does not make them an authority or someone who should be listened to.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
No Yeshua did not become the son of God....

If in every culture and book God is omnipresent meaning it is all beings in many, how can anything that is created by it become more...it was created as such, else wouldn't be.....God is infinite and for anything to be a son of God or an angel/Elohim is better suited....then it has been infinite since it begun; as we all can be as Yeshua was asking us to be and he was, not less.

As Heaven was there before earth, so when all was made, Angels got created, Christ/Yeshua is one and sits on the right hand side of a circle surrounding God that is unlimited wisdom, and contains unconditional love, with many unknown Biblically speaking, yet not globally; as Lao Tzu sits on the left as does Buddha and many sages...all of war are on the right hand side as is any kings throne.
Yet all who have a place there know this, those who have a place in heaven can achieve it; yet Elohim/Angels/sons of men are sent and from a very early age are aware of being sent or with special gifts.

It is again Pharisee points distracting from the truth and the book of John is false as they come. with more point to distract from the previous laws and to put of any followers of the commandments from ever following Christ.
The book of John is not written to help people, yet to put off, just over the years people have accepted it as truth without looking from the way it has been presented.
Yet when it is a testimony that doesn’t match the other gospels, contains evil things and blatantly stands against the rest of the Bible.
Then maybe if even a few had a mustard seed to take a look out side of the box as a mustard seed will do, then they may have looked at what is written carefully.

So this point you are making stems from John, who said “now you are my begotten son”….as Mohammed clearly said “God does not begot” all is God to begin with!
 
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