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Did Jesus Christ die for us or.....
- Thread starter Jeremiah
- Start date
Bishka
Veteran Member
Did Jesus Christ die for us or did we brutally murder him?
For those who believe in Him. Yes, He did die for all mankind.
Kaysar
Legatus Legionis
Because they were commiting a sin in ignorance. These people truly believed they were putting a "false prophet" to death. They were blinded by their zeal and ignorance of God's Word. Even Jesus' disciples who knew He was the Christ denied Him, yet, He forgave them.
Zechariah 11 is a prophecy that Yeshua fulfilled and is recorded as so:
The prophecy states that: if 30 pieces of silvers are paid and then placed into the potters field in the house of Israel .then inheritance and grace would be removed from the foolish shepherds being Pharisee, Sadducees and Levites One foolish shepherd re-established being the Pharisees ([gospel of] John, [7 epistles] Paul and Simon {stone stumbling -> peter})
Mar 7:10-13
(10) For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
(11) But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is an Offering (Corban), that is to say, a Sacrifice (gift), by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me [he shall be free]
(12) And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
(13) Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.
Mat 27:3-10
(3) Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
(4) Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
(5) And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
(6) And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the Offering (Corban [treasury]), because it is the price of blood.
(7) And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
(8) Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
(9) Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Zechariah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
(10) And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me.
Mat 9:13
(13) But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Hos 6:6
(6) For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.
Mat 12:7
(7) But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.
Judge, Juror and Executioner .
Jeremiah
Well-Known Member
“Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).
I will work off the assumption that Jesus' divinity if fact.
Father - If Jesus is divine than there would be no reason for him to relate his thoughts and feelings to God, they are one in the same. The fact that he said this out loud means it was for us to hear.
They & Them - As opposed to us.
Know not what they do - ignorance.
And the fact that he says this while on the cross is also to be taken in to consideration.
"Father" is the confusing part. If Jesus was talking to us than "Father" must be connected with our relation to God.
Ignorance of what? Perhaps the brutal way man rejected Jesus’ divinity.
My attempt to understand/translate...
People of God (or maybe With the aid of God) forgive the horrible, violent, brutal reaction to divinity, for they are confused, bewildered, frighten and are blind to the wrong they are doing.
Any thoughts on this?
I will work off the assumption that Jesus' divinity if fact.
Father - If Jesus is divine than there would be no reason for him to relate his thoughts and feelings to God, they are one in the same. The fact that he said this out loud means it was for us to hear.
They & Them - As opposed to us.
Know not what they do - ignorance.
And the fact that he says this while on the cross is also to be taken in to consideration.
"Father" is the confusing part. If Jesus was talking to us than "Father" must be connected with our relation to God.
Ignorance of what? Perhaps the brutal way man rejected Jesus’ divinity.
My attempt to understand/translate...
People of God (or maybe With the aid of God) forgive the horrible, violent, brutal reaction to divinity, for they are confused, bewildered, frighten and are blind to the wrong they are doing.
Any thoughts on this?
Mark 10:17-19
17(A)As He was setting out on a journey, a man ran up to Him and (B)knelt before Him, and asked Him, "Good Teacher, what shall I do to (C)inherit eternal life?" 18And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good except God alone.
19"You know the commandments, '(D)DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, Do not defraud, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"
Do you still think they are the same?
logician
Well-Known Member
This statement contradicts itself, he could only die for those who believe in him, according to Christianity, everyone else is SOL.
Dunemeister
Well-Known Member
Did Jesus Christ die for us or did we brutally murder him?
Yes..
Sola'lor
LDSUJC
Did Jesus Christ die for us or did we brutally murder him?
For those who believe Christ gave His own life. Nobody could take His life from him. Christ could have hung on the cross forever and not died from what was done to Him. He had to willingly give His own life as a sacrifice.
jtartar
Well-Known Member
Did Jesus Christ die for us or did we brutally murder him?
Jeremiah,
John 3:16, is called the Gospel in miniature. Consider what is said in this scripture. God loved the world so much that He gave His only Begotten son so thst whoever believed in him would not be destroyed, but have everlasting life.
Many other scriptures show that this was God's purpose from the time that Adam and Eve sinned against God, in Eden. The first prophecy, Gen 3:15, spoke about Jesus being brusied in the heel, but Satan bruised in the head. Jesus was bruised in the heel when he gave his life or all who would have faith in his ransom sacrifice.
Consider Acts 2:22-24, which tells about Jesus being delivered up by the determined and foreknowledge of God.
Consider also Acts 3:13-21. These scriptures explain much about the purpose of God, to save mankind Consider what Jesus said about his giving his life. Nobody TOOK his life, but he gave it to save men, John 10:17,18.
All these scriptures were a fulfillment of many scriptures first prophesied in the Hebrew Scriptures, Isaiah chapter 53 tells about the coming of Jesus and his giving his life for many men.
Consider also Matt 20:28, and 1Tim 2:4-6.
Jesus knew that he had to die for men at the appointed time, that time was on the Passover date, Nisan 14. This year the date will be Mar 22, on our calendar. This is the only day that Jesus told his disciples to celebrate, Luke 22:19, 1Cor 11:23-26. Jesus told his disciples several times what would happen to him, Matt 20:18,19, Mark 9:31, John 7:6-8, 13:1.
tomspug
Absorbant
Why isn't the answer both?Did Jesus Christ die for us or did we brutally murder him?
Wandered Off
Sporadic Driveby Member
Could it be the first documented case of 'suicide by cop'?
crystalonyx
Well-Known Member
Jesus was a symbol, not a real person, none of us needs saving from ourselves.
trinity2359
Active Member
To the original poster, both. Everytime we sin we essentially nail him right back up because the act of sinning is an act of defiance, rejecting his Lordship and asking forgiveness of the sin requires His sacrafice. Fortunately, it's an infinite sacrafice so we're good.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Jesus gave himself willingly to die a brutal death. They could not even find two witness' that could lie in agreement in order to impose a death penalty. It was His own statement about being God that did it at the trial before the Sanhedrin.
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Jesus didtn realy want to have to suffer like that..Who would?...But He did it anyway..For all of us....MANY people would have hidden Him...He could have avoided dying in pain and in torture while being mocked and made fun of..Even His own desciples(most of them) HID...They were afraid they might get tortured mocked and beaten and crucified..
Jesus LOVED us enough ....He would suffer greatly..
Blessings
Dallas
Jesus LOVED us enough ....He would suffer greatly..
Blessings
Dallas
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
I think John...and His mother Mary..and Mary( Magdeline)the most enlightened if you ask Me) were the only ones that had the nerve to stand there with HIm..The others HID...
Blessings
Dallas
Blessings
Dallas
I think Jesus annoyed the Jews and the Romans which was punishable by death in those times thus Jesus died to satisfy the justice system of the day. I think given the opportunity Jesus would have continued on with his teachings and doing what ever it is exactly that he did and died of natural causes given the opportunity.