Did Jesus Christ die for us or.....

[sojourner]

does anyone know who this statement concerns, "father forgive them they know not what they do" who is he talking about ?

We don't know for sure. We do know that the statement is missing from early manuscripts of Luke, making it possible that it was not included in the original, but something added later by a redactor.

However, the theology is consistent with Jesus' other sayings. It probably reflects a call for compassion for the Romans' circumstantial ignorance and the Jews' judicial ignorance.

 

[kai]

We don't know for sure. We do know that the statement is missing from early manuscripts of Luke, making it possible that it was not included in the original, but something added later by a redactor.

However, the theology is consistent with Jesus' other sayings. It probably reflects a call for compassion for the Romans' circumstantial ignorance and the Jews' judicial ignorance.

thanks i thought perhaps he meant the soldiers who did the crucifying , when you say jews you cant mean all of them

 

[sojourner]

thanks i thought perhaps he meant the soldiers who did the crucifying , when you say jews you cant mean all of them

The Jews who were part of "the system."

 

[kai]

The Jews who were part of "the system."

ok ,you mean like Ciaphas

 

[sojourner]

ok ,you mean like Ciaphas

Among others.

 

[logician]

The biblical story of the crucifixion simply could not have taken place as described.

 

[rheff78]

The biblical story of the crucifixion simply could not have taken place as described.

Why not?

 

[logician]

Why not?

First the contradictions between the gospels:

"When was Christ crucified? Mark 15:25 "And it was the third hour and they crucified him." John 19:14-15 "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour; and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your king…Shall I crucify your king?" John 19:14-15"

"The two thieves reviled Christ. (Matthew 27:44 & Mark 15:32) Only one of the thieves reviled Christ. Luke 23:39-40."

"How many women came to the sepulcher? John 20:1 Only one woman went, Mary Magdalene. Matthew 28:1 Mary Magdalene and the "other Mary" (Jesus’ mother) went.
Mark 16:2 It was sunrise when the two women went to the sepulcher. John 20:1 It was still dark (before sunrise) when Mary Magdalene went alone to the sepulcher.
There were two angels seen by the women at the sepulcher and they were standing up. Luke 24:4 There was only one angel seen and he was sitting down. Mark 28:2-5
How many angels were within the sepulcher? John 20:11-12 two, Mark 16:5 one.
"

Also:

"
[SIZE=+1]When Jesus is finally turned over to the Roman governor, Mark makes Pilate behave in a manner which is entirely uncharacteristic of what we know of him from historical sources, and of Roman policy in general. By whitewashing Pilate, by having the demands of the Jewish leaders and Jewish people override his attempts to free Jesus, by having the crowd choose Barabbas over Jesus (an option no governor of Judea would ever have offered, and there is no record of such a Roman policy anywhere), Mark places the primary responsibility for Jesus' death at the feet of the Jews.[/SIZE]
"

The crucifiction story is obviously made up, and changed according to the whims of the author.