Did Jesus Claim to be God?

[Skwim]

Separation from God is ignorance, there is nothing but God, or what I can, the Source of all, of course there is no God in the sky looking down and judging us, that's a very childish view of God. We as the mind body organism arised from God, as I said, there is only God. We as the mind body organism because of our ignorance believe we are separate from God, and hence the ignorance of separation, because of this separation we suffer, we try to do all on our own, when in fact we have no choice to do what we do.

Then we are not, "all collectively God, like it or not" as you said.

 

[Skwim]

Why? Can't you just believe in what the bible tells us?



Theological corners? Not really. Scripture tells us that he is the son of God. Why would we want to believe in something else.... like God the son.....

Well, it also tells you that he is god. One such "telling" being based on basic logic (law of transitivity:. If A is B, and B is C, then A is C.)

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."​

So, what is this "Word"?

John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."​

Which would be the being called Jesus.

So, Jesus is god.

What? The son of himself? Can you please give us a verse? Would love to see that one.....

From the above (John 1:1, 14) it's clear that Jesus is god. ........

And, if Matthew 3;17 is true

"and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (the Son being Jesus)​

then it's quite clear that Jesus is the son of himself.

 

[moorea944]

Well, it also tells you that he is god. One such "telling" being based on basic logic (law of transitivity:. If A is B, and B is C, then A is C.)

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."​

So, what is this "Word"?

John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."​

Which would be the being called Jesus.

So, Jesus is god.



From the above (John 1:1, 14) it's clear that Jesus is god. ........

And, if Matthew 3;17 is true

"and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (the Son being Jesus)​

then it's quite clear that Jesus is the son of himself.

Well, it also tells you that he is god. One such "telling" being based on basic logic (law of transitivity:. If A is B, and B is C, then A is C.)
John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
So, what is this "Word"?
John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Which would be the being called Jesus.
So, Jesus is god.

The word "word" is not Jesus in verse one. In Greek, the word "word" is "logos". It means someones plans, thoughts or reasons. It is God's Word. In Genesis, God's Word in the beginning.

In verse 14, the word or "logos" became flesh. Meaning God's plans, thoughts or reasons, or God's Word became realitly or real. Jesus IS the word of God. God manifests Himself in Jesus. God works "through" His son.

Yes, Jesus is the "Word". He is also the bread, the light, etc, etc. But in John 1v1, it's talking about God, not Jesus.

And, if Matthew 3;17 is true
"and behold, a voice out of the heavens said, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased." (the Son being Jesus)
then it's quite clear that Jesus is the son of himself.

OK, now we are just talking stupid. Jesus is the son of himself???? And that's actually how apostasy creeps into Christianity. Jesus is not God. God is the God and father of Jesus. Jesus is the son of God. Even Jesus tells us that he is from the seed of David.

 

[Skwim]

The word "word" is not Jesus in verse one. In Greek, the word "word" is "logos". It means someones plans, thoughts or reasons. It is God's Word. In Genesis, God's Word in the beginning.

According to Strong's Concordance

" 'Word'........ g3056........ λόγος........ logos"​

"Word" does equate with "logos," but it does so in both passages, and with NO differentiation whatsoever.

In verse 14, the word or "logos" became flesh.

Yup, god took on a human form, Jesus.

Meaning God's plans, thoughts or reasons, or God's Word became realitly or real. Jesus IS the word of God. God manifests Himself in Jesus. God works "through" His son.

Nice try I guess, but your conjecture doesn't wash. As John 1:1 says "the Word was God." When one says A is/was B it indicates the two are identities (identical).

Yes, Jesus is the "Word". He is also the bread, the light, etc, etc.

Which coincides with John 1:1 where it identifies the Word as god.

Jesus = Word
Word = god
___________
Jesus = god

(law of transitivity:. If A is B, and B is C, then A is C)​

OK, now we are just talking stupid. Jesus is the son of himself???? And that's actually how apostasy creeps into Christianity.

Hey, I didn't create your Bible. I'm just taking the Christian at his word that what it says is true. And if it says that A = B and A ≠ B that's not my fault, and one you have to live with or try to tap dance around---as you've tried here. Problem is you can't say the Bible means what it says, a common claim of Christians, and then turn around and say the Bible means what I says it does.

The inscrutable fact is, the Bible reveals that Jesus is the son of himself.

 

[moorea944]

According to Strong's Concordance

" 'Word'........ g3056........ λόγος........ logos"​

"Word" does equate with "logos," but it does so in both passages, and with NO differentiation whatsoever.

Yup, god took on a human form, Jesus.


Nice try I guess, but your conjecture doesn't wash. As John 1:1 says "the Word was God." When one says A is/was B it indicates the two are identities (identical).

Which coincides with John 1:1 where it identifies the Word as god.

Jesus = Word
Word = god
___________
Jesus = god

(law of transitivity:. If A is B, and B is C, then A is C)​

Hey, I didn't create your Bible. I'm just taking the Christian at his word that what it says is true. And if it says that A = B and A ≠ B that's not my fault, and one you have to live with or try to tap dance around---as you've tried here. Problem is you can't say the Bible means what it says, a common claim of Christians, and then turn around and say the Bible means what I says it does.

The inscrutable fact is, the Bible reveals that Jesus is the son of himself.

"Word" does equate with "logos," but it does so in both passages, and with NO differentiation whatsoever.

It's talking about God's Word. Jesus is the word of God. Jesus is part of God's word right from the beginning, but only in thought and plan. Not until verse 14 Jesus becomes flesh.

Yup, god took on a human form, Jesus.

God took on human form? No. God had a son through Mary. Jesus is the son of God. I already showed you that......

Nice try I guess, but your conjecture doesn't wash. As John 1:1 says "the Word was God." When one says A is/was B it indicates the two are identities (identical).

LOL That's because your trying to make Jesus God!!! lol lol

The inscrutable fact is, the Bible reveals that Jesus is the son of himself.

No it doesnt. You do. If Jesus was God, nothing would make sense. The Messiah had to be like us. Like us. That means, he had to have the same nature. He had to conquer sin. Jesus wasnt born perfect, but he lead a perfect life. He cried, struggled, died, etc, etc, ... That's a God to you???? He was also made lower than the angels for a reason!! He was exalted "from" his father. He is in subjection to his Father, even in heaven....
John 1 is not telling us that Jesus is God. You are....

(law of transitivity:. If A is B, and B is C, then A is C)

Ughhhhh.....

 

[Skwim]

(law of transitivity:. If A is B, and B is C, then A is C)

Ughhhhh.....

Yeah, when common, everyday logic shoots down your argument it can't be at all that comforting. I've found that most Christians simply ignore such troublesome issues and go on to something else. Maybe they're on to something.

In any case, have a good day.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Mark, Matthew and Luke say no. John says yes. Does majority win?

 

[psychoslice]

Then we are not, "all collectively God, like it or not" as you said.

But we are not the mind bo0dy organism, that is just an illusion made up from conditioning, programming, and genetics passed down, our true Self is the pure Source, or God.

 

[Neo Deist]

Yes factually.

For the first few hundred years NO church existed. They worshipped out of houses we know as Pater Famalias.

That is where you are wrong.

A church is not a place of worship, it is a gathering for worship. It is the people that make up the church.

A church building (temple, hall, synagogue, mosque, etc.) is the place of worship.

Now you can run to Webster's if you like, but those of us with religion know the difference.

 

[outhouse]

A church is not a place of worship,

Maybe on another planet?


The original Koine word translates to assembly, but the definition has evolved into something else.

They met in houses originally and there was no church. The word used in the bible does not even mean church.

 

[Neo Deist]

The original Koine word translates to assembly, but the definition has evolved into something else.

So by your own admission, I am right and the term originally meant the gathering, not the building. Nothing else left to say. Case closed.

 

[outhouse]

So by your own admission, I am right and the term originally meant the gathering, not the building. Nothing else left to say. Case closed.

No you misunderstood my context.

I stated quite clearly they worshipped out of houses. Around the dinner table actually by our best accounts.


You however implied I stated a church is a place of worship, which I never did.

Jesus has been elevated to godhood status by The Church

This is where I had a real problem with your statements, because these early houses did no such thing. They believed in his divinity from the get go.


The belief was very diverse. People had many different definitions on who he actually was. But no one thinks churches made him divine.

 

[Neo Deist]

No you misunderstood my context.

I stated quite clearly they worshipped out of houses. Around the dinner table actually by our best accounts.

I did not misunderstand anything.

The original Koine word translates to assembly...

So those that assemble around the dinner table for worship would constitute a church, even way back in the early CE era. This is something that those of us with religion have understood for the longest time. The church is not the place of worship, but the assembly of people for the purpose of worship. Even your own statement of the Koine Greek supports that notion.

Now you can try and spin this into something else, but the facts remain.

As to my concept of Jesus as divine, that was not an official doctrine of The Church until the Council of Chalcedon, as previously stated.

 

[outhouse]

As to my concept of Jesus as divine, that was not an official doctrine of The Church until the Council of Chalcedon, as previously stated.

False

He was always divine, in 325 he was found to be the one with the father.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon

In 325, the first ecumenical council (First Council of Nicaea) determined that Jesus Christ was God


FACT is you made a mistake in claiming the church made him god. Its quite obvious even Paul viewed him as god. The church did not elevate him.

 

[outhouse]

This thread is about if Jesus claimed to be god.

Its doubtful he would have ever claimed divinity.


We know his earliest Hellenistic followers in the Diaspora however, did view him as divine.

 

[moorea944]

False

He was always divine, in 325 he was found to be the one with the father.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Chalcedon

In 325, the first ecumenical council (First Council of Nicaea) determined that Jesus Christ was God


FACT is you made a mistake in claiming the church made him god. Its quite obvious even Paul viewed him as god. The church did not elevate him.

Actually, the church did elevate him. Paul or anyone else for that matter, never viewed Jesus as God. OT or NT. Jesus was never divine as God at anytime.

Here O Israel, the Lord our God is one.

 

[outhouse]

. Paul or anyone else for that matter, never viewed Jesus as God. OT or NT

False. Many viewed the living Emperor as divine and "son of god"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle

1. God sent his Son.
2. The Son was crucified for the sins of humanity.
3. After being dead three days, the Son was raised from the dead, defeating death.
4. The Son would soon return.
5. Those in Christ will live with him forever.
6. Followers are urged to live by a set apart (sanctified) standard—"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ".[1 Thes. 5:23]

After his conversion, Paul began to preach that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.


Son of god back then was heavily debated on meaning and context in definition. Some viewed him as one with god from the start. OTHERS viewed him as a separate deity.

While the later church settle the debate, that does not mean it ever developed the origin of the definition used by many early followers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christology

The Kyrios title for Jesus is central to the development of New Testament Christology, for the early Christians placed it at the center of their understanding, and from that center attempted to understand the other issues related to the Christian mysteries.[22] The question of the deity of Christ in the New Testament is inherently related to the Kyrios title of Jesus used in the early Christian writings and its implications for the absolute lordship of Jesus. In early Christian belief, the concept of Kyrios included the pre-existence of Christ, for they believed if Christ is one with God, he must have been united with God from the very beginning.[22][23]

Jesus was never divine as God at anytime.

Is this your own personal rhetoric based on your current faith?

 

[outhouse]

I don't mean to be hard on you, if you think that. You have a better grasp then many. I'm just trying to correct what I perceive as mistakes in some of your details. Right or wrong.

The devil is in the details, and some wording makes all the difference.

 

[moorea944]

False. Many viewed the living Emperor as divine and "son of god"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_the_Apostle

1. God sent his Son.
2. The Son was crucified for the sins of humanity.
3. After being dead three days, the Son was raised from the dead, defeating death.
4. The Son would soon return.
5. Those in Christ will live with him forever.
6. Followers are urged to live by a set apart (sanctified) standard—"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ".[1 Thes. 5:23]

After his conversion, Paul began to preach that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.


Son of god back then was heavily debated on meaning and context in definition. Some viewed him as one with god from the start. OTHERS viewed him as a separate deity.

While the later church settle the debate, that does not mean it ever developed the origin of the definition used by many early followers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christology

The Kyrios title for Jesus is central to the development of New Testament Christology, for the early Christians placed it at the center of their understanding, and from that center attempted to understand the other issues related to the Christian mysteries.[22] The question of the deity of Christ in the New Testament is inherently related to the Kyrios title of Jesus used in the early Christian writings and its implications for the absolute lordship of Jesus. In early Christian belief, the concept of Kyrios included the pre-existence of Christ, for they believed if Christ is one with God, he must have been united with God from the very beginning.[22][23]




Is this your own personal rhetoric based on your current faith?

False. Many viewed the living Emperor as divine and "son of god"
God sent his Son.
The Son was crucified for the sins of humanity.
After being dead three days, the Son was raised from the dead, defeating death.
The Son would soon return.
Those in Christ will live with him forever.
Followers are urged to live by a set apart (sanctified) standard—"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ".[1 Thes. 5:23]

False? That is exactly what I believe in... Are you sure your listening to me?.....

After his conversion, Paul began to preach that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God.

Correct.

Is this your own personal rhetoric based on your current faith?

Shouldnt I be saying that to you?...... I like said before, you put the trinity into the bible.

 

[outhouse]

Shouldnt I be saying that to you?...... I like said before, you put the trinity into the bible.

Maybe you don't understand.

or you just refuse to address credible sources.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christology

The Kyrios title for Jesus is central to the development of New Testament Christology, for the early Christians placed it at the center of their understanding, and from that center attempted to understand the other issues related to the Christian mysteries.[22] The question of the deity of Christ in the New Testament is inherently related to the Kyrios title of Jesus used in the early Christian writings and its implications for the absolute lordship of Jesus. In early Christian belief, the concept of Kyrios included the pre-existence of Christ, for they believed if Christ is one with God, he must have been united with God from the very beginning.[22][23]




Here from the beginning they claim Jesus is one with god. UNITED.


No one is putting the trinity in. Many people believed he was god from the start.