Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

[Subduction Zone]

Here's some recommended reading for you so you can enlarge your knowledge base and won't feel neglected:

Yes, another dishonest idiot. He does not even know what an atheist is. He also does not understand the science that he denies at all. It is fine not to understand all of the sciences. But that is no exucse to deny them. Deniers assume that because they do not understand something that no one can. It is a belief that has been shown to be wrong countless times.

 

[lukethethird]

Here's some recommended reading for you so you can enlarge your knowledge base and won't feel neglected:

Let me guess the subtitle, How stupid can stupid get?

 

[Riders]

I saw this from a UU Church website: inSpirit: UUA Bookstore and Gift Shop: Understanding the Bible

A book...

"Designed to help empower skeptics, seekers, nonbelievers, and those of a liberal and progressive outlook to reclaim the Bible from literalists."

Sorry if this offends, but liberalism does not encourage Biblical truths. Instead it pushes unbiblical lifestyles (such as gay marriage), and in instances incorporates far eastern theologies that are incompatible with Biblical truths.

Someone needs to rescue the Bible from progressives.

If Christ is not Risen, then those who believe that are dead in their sins (1 Corinthians 15 NIV).

Well you are actually wrong about the UU church. The reason why I know this is because the UU churches have a system where in some UU's don't claim any one religion because the are all religions, some claim one religion if most of the people in their congregation belong to that religion.
They celebrate the holidays of that religion, like my old Pagan UU church celebrated Pagan holidays used Pagan style rituals to run the meeting and quite often brought up Pagan issues for discussion as sermon.

But There are Christian UU churches. There's one in Plano Tx they have Sunday school, a Christian sermon based upon the bible,they celebrate Christian holidays, sing Christian hymns.

They do not destroy the bible, they just follow Jesus as the Messiah not as God. That's the difference. Your problem along with other fundamentalist Christians is that you describe liberal interpretation of Jesus as evil and encouraging Atheists simply because they do not claim Jesus as God that;s all. You believe there's only one way and that way is Jesus as God who was raised from the dead.

Anyone who is different then that in your mind might as well be atheist. I know this because UU in Plano follows and reads their bibles regularly and follows Jesus as the Messiah. So your wrong. Your just biased against anyone who isnt exactly like you.

BTW the Unity church Im going to visit this month also uses the bible for sermons and teaches Jesus as Messiah savior but not God. They love God and they believe in the bible too.

 

[Riders]

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth - Genesis 1

That I firmly believe. So do many scientists. Like former NASA scientist Robert Jastrow ("God and the Astronomers“) wrote,

"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountains of ignorance, he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries.”

Now, you want to talk Genesis? This is not the thread for it. This thread is titled, "Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?" Start your own thread on Genesis so you don't derail this one.

And you deny the resurrection of Jesus in spite of the multiple, independent, historical confirmations from the Gospels, etc., that he did. And that's fine - that's your belief. But I'd like to remind you that your belief is not based in science. Science has never proven that God and the supernatural do not and cannot exist.


Jesus is Lord!

Finish it, and has never proven that God and the supernatural do exist. Why do you turn to scientists to prove your religion? I believe in God or a higher power and I know it can not be proven so I do not have a need to argue with atheists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Finish it, and has never proven that God and the supernatural do exist. Why do you turn to scientists to prove your religion? I believe in God or a higher power and I know it can not be proven so I do not have a need to argue with atheists.

He can't. No theist can and they know it. You can see from some of his previous arguments where he assumes that he is right if people cannot prove him wrong. Of course that is not the way it works. When one makes a positive claim of an event in a debate the person making the positive assertion has the burden of proof. That the evidence for Jesus is rather weak and largely circular makes it necessary for believers to use circular reasoning and shifting the burden of proof. When investigated many of their claims fail. If they used the same standards that they apply to other religions to their own they would be some of the most zealous atheists out there.

 

[Audie]

He can't. No theist can and they know it. You can see from some of his previous arguments where he assumes that he is right if people cannot prove him wrong. Of course that is not the way it works. When one makes a positive claim of an event in a debate the person making the positive assertion has the burden of proof. That the evidence for Jesus is rather weak and largely circular makes it necessary for believers to use circular reasoning and shifting the burden of proof. When investigated many of their claims fail. If they used the same standards that they apply to other religions to their own they would be some of the most zealous atheists out there.

It is also unseemly to beat up the
differently abled.

 

[Riders]

He can't. No theist can and they know it. You can see from some of his previous arguments where he assumes that he is right if people cannot prove him wrong. Of course that is not the way it works. When one makes a positive claim of an event in a debate the person making the positive assertion has the burden of proof. That the evidence for Jesus is rather weak and largely circular makes it necessary for believers to use circular reasoning and shifting the burden of proof. When investigated many of their claims fail. If they used the same standards that they apply to other religions to their own they would be some of the most zealous atheists out there.

Yes I agree and the only thing I would add is that No Christian can and they know it. I am a theist, a beliefs in God a higher power sometimes I refer to him as Dharma or nature but still a higher power.But I would never argue with Atheists on God being real because I know that there is no proof for God.

My God is for me and I do not want to witness or convert others therefore have no desire to argue with atheists. I worship a God becaus eits personal and its for me only.

 

[Spartan]

They do not destroy the bible, they just follow Jesus as the Messiah not as God. That's the difference. Your problem along with other fundamentalist Christians is that you describe liberal interpretation of Jesus as evil and encouraging Atheists simply because they do not claim Jesus as God that;s all. You believe there's only one way and that way is Jesus as God who was raised from the dead.

They are scripturally ignorant, then, in denying the deity of Jesus. There's TONS of supporting scriptural evidences for the divine Jesus in the Bible. But at least they got it right that Jesus is the Messiah.

They love God and they believe in the bible too.

Here's just ONE of numerous evidences for the deity of Jesus.

Jesus Must be Jehovah

John 1:23 quotes Isaiah 40:3 as saying John the Baptist was to prepare the way for the LORD (Jehovah). John prepared the way before Jesus so Jesus must be LORD (Jehovah).

In Isaiah 44:8 God is the only Rock. Psalm 18:31 says, “Who is the Rock except our God”? I Corinthians 10:4, identifies Jesus as the Rock. Jesus must also then be God the Rock.

Isaiah 44:24 says that God (Jehovah) is the one who has made all things. Colossians 1:16, speaking of Christ, says that “all things were created by Him and for him”. Jesus must therefore be Jehovah God.

In Jeremiah 10:10 it says “the LORD (Jehovah) is the true God”. I John 5:20 states that Jesus is the “true God”. Jesus must be the true God.

Isaiah 43:10,11 says that “I, even I, am the LORD; and there is no savior besides Me. Jesus is the Savior (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, etc., etc.). Jesus must be God the Savior.

Jehovah knows all things (Psalm 147:5). Jesus knows “all things.” (John 16:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah alone is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23). Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13). Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 10:10). Only God is the sanctifier of men. Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our peace (Judges 6:23). Jesus is our peace (Ephesians 2:14). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is our righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6). Jesus is our righteousness. (Romans 3:21-22; 1 Corinthians 1:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be delivered / snatched out of His hand (Deuteronomy 32:39). Jesus is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (John 10:28). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s voice is “like the roar of rushing waters” (Ezekiel 43:2). Jesus’ “voice was like the sound of rushing waters” (Revelation 1:15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is present everywhere.(Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27); Jesus is omnipresent (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s nature does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus’ nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8).

Jehovah is the only God we are to “serve”(2 Kings 17:35); Jesus (identified as the Creator in Colossians 1:16-17) is to be served (Colossians 3:24). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah the Lord is to be set apart as holy (Isaiah 8:12b-13). Jesus, as Lord, is to be set apart as holy (1 Peter 3:14b-15a).

More in the link.

Jesus Must be Jehovah

 

[Spartan]

Let me guess the subtitle, How stupid can stupid get?

Ask a Biblically-challenged atheist.

 

[Audie]

I wonder when preaching is or is not preaching.

 

[Spartan]

He is all but an atheist. He is most definitely not a Christian. .

That's even better. He (Jastrow) knows, then, that the real answers are with the theology crowd. You should take your cue from that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They are scripturally ignorant, then, in denying the deity of Jesus. There's TONS of supporting scriptural evidences for the divine Jesus in the Bible. But at least they got it right that Jesus is the Messiah.



Here's just ONE of numerous evidences for the deity of Jesus.

Jesus Must be Jehovah

John 1:23 quotes Isaiah 40:3 as saying John the Baptist was to prepare the way for the LORD (Jehovah). John prepared the way before Jesus so Jesus must be LORD (Jehovah).

In Isaiah 44:8 God is the only Rock. Psalm 18:31 says, “Who is the Rock except our God”? I Corinthians 10:4, identifies Jesus as the Rock. Jesus must also then be God the Rock.

Isaiah 44:24 says that God (Jehovah) is the one who has made all things. Colossians 1:16, speaking of Christ, says that “all things were created by Him and for him”. Jesus must therefore be Jehovah God.

In Jeremiah 10:10 it says “the LORD (Jehovah) is the true God”. I John 5:20 states that Jesus is the “true God”. Jesus must be the true God.

Isaiah 43:10,11 says that “I, even I, am the LORD; and there is no savior besides Me. Jesus is the Savior (Matthew 1:21, Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 1:1, etc., etc.). Jesus must be God the Savior.

Jehovah knows all things (Psalm 147:5). Jesus knows “all things.” (John 16:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah alone is the only one who knows the hearts of all men. (1 Kings 8:39; Jeremiah 17:9-10). Jesus knows the hearts of all men. (John 2:24-25; Rev. 2:18, 23). Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our sanctifier. (Exodus 31:13). Jesus sanctifies us (Hebrews 10:10). Only God is the sanctifier of men. Jesus must be God.

Jehovah is our peace (Judges 6:23). Jesus is our peace (Ephesians 2:14). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is our righteousness (Jeremiah 23:6). Jesus is our righteousness. (Romans 3:21-22; 1 Corinthians 1:30). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be delivered / snatched out of His hand (Deuteronomy 32:39). Jesus is the giver of life who will not allow His people to be “snatched” out of His hand. (John 10:28). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s voice is “like the roar of rushing waters” (Ezekiel 43:2). Jesus’ “voice was like the sound of rushing waters” (Revelation 1:15). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah is present everywhere.(Proverbs 15:3; Jeremiah 23:24; I Kings 8:27); Jesus is omnipresent (John 1:48; Matthew 18:20; 28:20). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah’s nature does not change (Malachi 3:6). Jesus’ nature does not change. (Hebrews 13:8).

Jehovah is the only God we are to “serve”(2 Kings 17:35); Jesus (identified as the Creator in Colossians 1:16-17) is to be served (Colossians 3:24). Jesus must be Jehovah.

Jehovah the Lord is to be set apart as holy (Isaiah 8:12b-13). Jesus, as Lord, is to be set apart as holy (1 Peter 3:14b-15a).

More in the link.

Jesus Must be Jehovah

That is very poor evidence. By that quality of evidence Spiderman is real.

Edit: It is also quote mining, a form of lying by quoting out of context. I can play that game too, I won't tell you the verses right now, I do have them, but at least twelve times the Bible says "There is no God". Does not disprove that existence of God? If not your quote mining does not prove anything about Jesus.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That's even better. He (Jastrow) knows, then, that the real answers are with the theology crowd. You should take your cue from that.

No, he does not know. Seriously you need to learn the difference between knowing and believing. He believes in a god but he bases that on an argument from ignorance, a logical fallacy.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ask a Biblically-challenged atheist.

There aren't too many of them. There are far more Biblically challenged theists. They don't know the history of their book of myths and they believe parts literally that are clearly mythological.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

One example Jesus ancestry ................

We have Jesus' maternal account found at Luke, and Jesus paternal account found in Matthew.
No one questioned the Jewish ancestral records kept in the temple starting at 1 Chronicles 1
Jesus ancestry goes back to Adam - Luke 3:38.

People may disagree about Jesus' resurrection but the Bible does not.

 

[Riders]

There aren't too many of them. There are far more Biblically challenged theists. They don't know the history of their book of myths and they believe parts literally that are clearly mythological.

I agree with that. Actually many times I've heard Christian who were in mainstream churches who had converted to Mormonism or The Seventh Day Adventist or Jehovah's Witnesses who said one big reason is that the mainstream churches do not know nor so they study the bible much.

Those little off spring of Christian churches use that against the main streamers. I had LDS folks who witnessed to me once and I almost went but did not, I happen to know they only witness to Christians. When they said" and I know your a nice Christian woman right? I dont remember what I said but I think I asked the question and they said they mainly do target mainstream Christians...........

 

[Riders]

We have Jesus' maternal account found at Luke, and Jesus paternal account found in Matthew.
No one questioned the Jewish ancestral records kept in the temple starting at 1 Chronicles 1
Jesus ancestry goes back to Adam - Luke 3:38.

People may disagree about Jesus' resurrection but the Bible does not.

Neither does the Hindu bible diagree with Hare Krishnas crucifixion nor do the other bibles disagree with their religions Quaran and Mohammed etc..........

 

[Riders]

We have Jesus' maternal account found at Luke, and Jesus paternal account found in Matthew.
No one questioned the Jewish ancestral records kept in the temple starting at 1 Chronicles 1
Jesus ancestry goes back to Adam - Luke 3:38.

People may disagree about Jesus' resurrection but the Bible does not.

Its your opinion on the ancestry but there's been much disagreement over it sorry.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Re: Post # 588 God's first creation was the pre-human heavenly Jesus as per Revelation 3:14.
God sent pre-human Jesus to Earth for us. Jesus did Not send himself.
The resurrected by God ascended-to-heaven Jesus still thinks he has a God over him as per Revelation 3:12.
Out of the two (2) KJV LORD/Lord's of Psalms 110, only the LORD in all capital letters applies the Tetragramaton.
The Lord, in some lower-case letters, stands for the Lord Jesus, and the Tetragrammaton does Not apply to Jesus.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

A person who believes anything in genesis
Is other than some sort of metaphor is a
blind believer.

I wonder a ' blind believer ' in what ___________
If a person does Not believe Genesis then they also do Not believe Revelation.- Revelation 22:2.
Then, they do Not believe in a resurrection Nor Jesus' coming 1,000-year governmental reign over Earth.