Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

[shmogie]

You sound so sensible till that last line.

There are millions upon millions that agree with me,

 

[Audie]

There are millions upon millions that agree with me,

Can you see any possible flaw in that as an argument?

 

[shmogie]

Can you see any possible flaw in that as an argument?

It isn´t an argument, it is a statement of fact regarding the number of believers, like me.

 

[Audie]

It isn´t an argument, it is a statement of fact regarding the number of believers, like me.

So, you just said it with no more intent than if you'd
offered some other fact, such as that there is ice
in Antarctica.

Maybe it unfamiliarity with argumentum ad populum
as worthless.*

Maybe this is a vocab issue.

Argument-

1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views,
   
   
2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others

*As Mark Twain said about the witnesses to the
marvellous gold books of Joseph Smith;

"I could not be more convinced if ever single member
of the Whitner and Smith families had signed!"

....... and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer

Jacob Whitmer

Peter Whitmer, Jun.

John Whitmer

Hiram Page

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Hyrum Smith

Samuel H. Smith

 

[shmogie]

So, you just said it with no more intent than if you'd
offered some other fact, such as that there is ice
in Antarctica.

Maybe it unfamiliarity with argumentum ad populum
as worthless.*

Maybe this is a vocab issue.

Argument-

1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views,
   
   
2. a reason or set of reasons given with the aim of persuading others

*As Mark Twain said about the witnesses to the
marvellous gold books of Joseph Smith;

"I could not be more convinced if ever single member
of the Whitner and Smith families had signed!"

....... and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.

Christian Whitmer

Jacob Whitmer

Peter Whitmer, Jun.

John Whitmer

Hiram Page

Joseph Smith, Sen.

Hyrum Smith

Samuel H. Smith

 

[paarsurrey]

There are millions upon millions that agree with me,

That does not make a myth into the reality. Please remain in the Myth-Land, if that is one's choice. Right, please?

Regards

 

[shmogie]

That does not make a myth into the reality. Please remain in the Myth-Land, if that is one's choice. Right, please?

Regards

Reality isn´t a myth.

 

[Audie]

Reality isn´t a myth.

And vice versa. Time to figure that out.

 

[Milton Platt]

The thing is God raised Jesus Christ from the dead.

Acts 2:24; Acts 3:15; Acts 4:10; Acts 5:30; Acts 13:30

Acts 10:39-43 New International Version (NIV)
“We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a cross, but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

View attachment 28464

I believe that Acts is generally considered to have been written 80 to 90 AD and is anonymous. I don't see how the writer (s) could have seen the resurrection.

 

[Jos]

At the end of the day, this debate won't be resolved any time soon since no one was there to see what happened and plus, each side has their own set of facts, on which they disagree with the other side... so we don't even have the proper facts to determine what happened anyway.

 

[Audie]

At the end of the day, this debate won't be resolved any time soon since no one was there to see what happened and plus, each side has their own set of facts, on which they disagree with the other side... so we don't even have the proper facts to determine what happened anyway.

Same with J Smith and his gold books.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I believe that Acts is generally considered to have been written 80 to 90 AD and is anonymous. I don't see how the writer (s) could have seen the resurrection.

People mentioned in Acts I find were with the living Jesus and the resurrected Jesus.
Since Scripture is God inspired then God is given the credit as being the behind-the-scenes Author - 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
I wonder how your arrived that Luke was anonymous ____________
Doesn't the Muratorian Fragment attribute writership to Luke _________
Doesn't Irenaeus of Lyons cite Luke as writer of Acts _________
Doesn't Clemenat of Alexandria cite Luke as writer of Acts_______
Doesn't Tertullian of Carthage cite Luke as writer of Acts ________

 

[URAVIP2ME]

At the end of the day, this debate won't be resolved any time soon since no one was there to see what happened and plus, each side has their own set of facts, on which they disagree with the other side... so we don't even have the proper facts to determine what happened anyway.

Is it the facts that disagree or people disagreeing ________
I find what is recorded in Scripture is as per 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says coming from God.
The ' debate ' will be resolved in 'soon coming time' because we are in the last days of badness on Earth.
People will hear the words saying, "Peace and Security..." but those words will prove to be just the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus will be the one who will establish true Peace on Earth.
- 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.

 

[Jos]

Is it the facts that disagree or people disagreeing ________
I find what is recorded in Scripture is as per 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says coming from God.
The ' debate ' will be resolved in 'soon coming time' because we are in the last days of badness on Earth.
People will hear the words saying, "Peace and Security..." but those words will prove to be just the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus will be the one who will establish true Peace on Earth.
- 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.

Both believers and skeptics disagree on what can be constituted as factual with respect to the life of Jesus and the time period in which He lived, so yeah I guess it's people disagreeing but also the facts concerning the event seem to be unverifiable.

 

[Milton Platt]

People mentioned in Acts I find were with the living Jesus and the resurrected Jesus.
Since Scripture is God inspired then God is given the credit as being the behind-the-scenes Author - 2 Tim. 3:16-17.
I wonder how your arrived that Luke was anonymous ____________
Doesn't the Muratorian Fragment attribute writership to Luke _________
Doesn't Irenaeus of Lyons cite Luke as writer of Acts _________
Doesn't Clemenat of Alexandria cite Luke as writer of Acts_______
Doesn't Tertullian of Carthage cite Luke as writer of Acts ________

The claim that anything in the bible is "god inspired" is just an unfounded assertion.

I say that it is anonymous because it is unsigned and nobody named "Luke" claims to have written such a paper. But no matter, even if he wrote it, he was not an eyewitness to the resurrection.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Both believers and skeptics disagree on what can be constituted as factual with respect to the life of Jesus and the time period in which He lived, so yeah I guess it's people disagreeing but also the facts concerning the event seem to be unverifiable.

Sound to me as if you are implying improvable, but to me Not impossible.
ALL the Bible's theme about the good news of God's kingdom of Daniel 2:44 paints a complete word picture for us.
Mankind has proven beyond doubt that man can't successfully govern himself.
That is exactly the challenge or the issue of sovereignty that began in Eden.
By breaking God's Law then Adam set up People Rule as being superior to God Rule.
The passing of time has allowed all in heaven and earth to see that men's kingdoms or governments can't bring lasting Peace on Earth.
Man will give it one last try by saying, " Peace and Security..." but it will prove it to only be a saying.
- 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The claim that anything in the bible is "god inspired" is just an unfounded assertion.
I say that it is anonymous because it is unsigned and nobody named "Luke" claims to have written such a paper. But no matter, even if he wrote it, he was not an eyewitness to the resurrection.

What you call an unfounded assertion I find it to be founded at 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
No one is saying Luke was an eyewitness, but the people whom he wrote about were real people.
Both Luke's gospel account and Acts are addressed to the same person : Theophilus.- Luke 1:2-3; Acts 1:1
Not being an eyewitness does Not mean it did Not happen.
What is happening today is the account found in the 21st chapter of Luke.
Even the detail adjective word ' great ' found at Luke 21:11 is for our time frame.

 

[paarsurrey]

The claim that anything in the bible is "god inspired" is just an unfounded assertion.

I say that it is anonymous because it is unsigned and nobody named "Luke" claims to have written such a paper. But no matter, even if he wrote it, he was not an eyewitness to the resurrection.

"The claim that anything in the bible is "god inspired" is just an unfounded assertion."

It will be as good to say that none of the NT-Bible is "god inspired".

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

The claim that anything in the bible is "god inspired" is just an unfounded assertion.

I say that it is anonymous because it is unsigned and nobody named "Luke" claims to have written such a paper. But no matter, even if he wrote it, he was not an eyewitness to the resurrection.

"I say that it is anonymous"

Not only you say that the four Gospels were anonymous documents but the Catholic-Encylopedia also affirms that these were anonymous documents. Right, please?
The names of the Gospels do not suggest that the the accounts written were written by these disciples, their names were just assigned to give them some credulity. Right, please?
None, emphasis none, of the Gospel writers was the eye-witness of Jesus Crucifixion. Right, please?

Regards

______________
"The first four historical books of the New Testament are supplied with titles ( Euaggelion kata Matthaion, Euaggelion kata Markon , etc.), which, however ancient, do not go back to the respective authors of those sacred writings. "
Gospel and Gospels - Encyclopedia Volume - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online

 

[Spartan]

I believe that Acts is generally considered to have been written 80 to 90 AD and is anonymous. I don't see how the writer (s) could have seen the resurrection.

Sixty-two scholars date the Book of Acts as being written, on average, 67 AD, well within the lifetimes of Paul and the many of the Apostles. Conservative scholars overwhelmingly cite Luke as the author.

A Chronological Order of The New Testament Books