Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

[sojourner]

So no resurrection? Then what does it have to do with Jesus' resurrection?

It has to do with Jesus’ resurrection because resurrection lifts one to deity status in the mind of the ancient Jew (only gods could be resurrected). Therefore, the parallelism of the two mythic stories is too striking to be ignored. Miraculous birth, being dubbed “savior,” and the assertion that both were divine — plus the ripoff of the artwork — shows us that the early Christians hoped to replace Augustus as Soter with Jesus, in the mind of early prospective believers, by paralleling Agustus’ Story. Equating Jesus with Augustus gave Jesus “street cred” in the eyes of Roman citizens who were being proselytized by the early church.

 

[paarsurrey]

It has to do with Jesus’ resurrection because resurrection lifts one to deity status in the mind of the ancient Jew (only gods could be resurrected). Therefore, the parallelism of the two mythic stories is too striking to be ignored. Miraculous birth, being dubbed “savior,” and the assertion that both were divine — plus the ripoff of the artwork — shows us that the early Christians hoped to replace Augustus as Soter with Jesus, in the mind of early prospective believers, by paralleling Agustus’ Story. Equating Jesus with Augustus gave Jesus “street cred” in the eyes of Roman citizens who were being proselytized by the early church.

"Jesus’ resurrection"

Jesus did not dies on the Cross, he was secretly treated for the injuries inflicted on him on the Cross, but with the help of those who wanted to see him survive, he survived a cursed death on the Cross which was inappropriate for a truthful and righteous prophet/messenger of
G-d. There is, therefore, no question of Jesus resurrection to the heaven, please.

Regards

 

[samtonga43]

How do you know he was secretly treated?

 

[paarsurrey]

How do you know he was secretly treated?

There are many clues to that. Firstly, Jesus injured body was delivered to his friends and disciples, what they were expected to do?

Regards

 

[sojourner]

"Jesus’ resurrection"

Jesus did not dies on the Cross, he was secretly treated for the injuries inflicted on him on the Cross, but with the help of those who wanted to see him survive, he survived a cursed death on the Cross which was inappropriate for a truthful and righteous prophet/messenger of
G-d. There is, therefore, no question of Jesus resurrection to the heaven, please.

Regards

IDK where you're getting this information, but it's certainly not from the bible -- which is the only reliable source of information about Jesus we have.

 

[samtonga43]

There are many clues to that. Firstly, Jesus injured body was delivered to his friends and disciples, what they were expected to do?

Regards

They anointed his body for burial.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The best argument for the resurrection of Jesus is the transformation of the disciples from sniveling cowards to dynamic evangelists willing to die for the news.

However, there is evidence in the Christian scriptures that the so-called evidence of Jesus' resurrection is flawed. The most obvious is that the followers of Jesus did not recognize him, except for the context. In the story of the Road to Emmaus, the followers talked to the man for an extended period of time and did not recognize him. It was not until he broke bread that they suddenly believed he was Jesus. These kind of anecdotal stories mean nothing.

 

[paarsurrey]

They anointed his body for burial.

Jesus was a Jew and there was no such tradition in the Jews.

Regards

 

[sooda]

They anointed his body for burial.

Yes. It was the Jewish custom to wash the body and anoint it with oils and spices.

1. Jewish Burial Customs and Anointing Oils | Synonym
   https://classroom.synonym.com/jewish-burial-customs-and-anointing-oils-12087702.html
   Burial. In the ancient world, Jewish burial typically took place in stone tombs. According to tradition, Abraham buried Sarah in a cave (Genesis 23), but later tombs were cut from the rock specifically for burial …
   
   
2. What was the significance of anointing spices in the Bible?
   https://www.gotquestions.org/anointing-spices.html
   The main reason a dead body was anointed with spices was to control the smell of decomposition. Jews did not practice embalming, and the funeral spices were a way to help minimize unpleasant odors. At the tomb of Lazarus , when Jesus asked for the stone to be rolled away from the mouth of the tomb, Martha objected: “By this time there is a bad odor, for he has been there four days” (John 11:39).
   

 

[paarsurrey]

The best argument for the resurrection of Jesus is the transformation of the disciples from sniveling cowards to dynamic evangelists willing to die for the news.

However, there is evidence in the Christian scriptures that the so-called evidence of Jesus' resurrection is flawed. The most obvious is that the followers of Jesus did not recognize him, except for the context. In the story of the Road to Emmaus, the followers talked to the man for an extended period of time and did not recognize him. It was not until he broke bread that they suddenly believed he was Jesus. These kind of anecdotal stories mean nothing.

"The most obvious is that the followers of Jesus did not recognize him, except for the context. In the story of the Road to Emmaus, the followers talked to the man for an extended period of time and did not recognize him. It was not until he broke bread that they suddenly believed he was Jesus"

What could have happened to Jesus or what did Jesus do under the circumstances, please? Any clues to that effect, please.
Also please reflect on ancient Jews burial custom , anointing the dead and embalming the dead, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

"The most obvious is that the followers of Jesus did not recognize him, except for the context. In the story of the Road to Emmaus, the followers talked to the man for an extended period of time and did not recognize him. It was not until he broke bread that they suddenly believed he was Jesus"

What could have happened to Jesus or what did Jesus do under the circumstances, please? Any clues to that effect, please.
Also please reflect on ancient Jews burial custom , anointing the dead and embalming the dead, please.

It is impossible that Jesus would have been a spirit or having a glorious body when his disciple saw him after when he came out from the tomb of Joseph of Arimathea . In case, if Jesus had been a spirit or
or had a glorious body, then he need not to have disguised like a gardener and would have met the public in open including the Jews for whom the Sign related, but he met secretly and told them to meet him in Galilee . Right, please?

Regards

 

[Kilk1]

It has to do with Jesus’ resurrection because resurrection lifts one to deity status in the mind of the ancient Jew (only gods could be resurrected). Therefore, the parallelism of the two mythic stories is too striking to be ignored. Miraculous birth, being dubbed “savior,” and the assertion that both were divine — plus the ripoff of the artwork — shows us that the early Christians hoped to replace Augustus as Soter with Jesus, in the mind of early prospective believers, by paralleling Agustus’ Story. Equating Jesus with Augustus gave Jesus “street cred” in the eyes of Roman citizens who were being proselytized by the early church.

The "ripoff of the artwork"? Are you commenting on the first century? None of what you just said is relevant to whether Jesus rose from the dead unless you're denying what's mainstream about the resurrection. Just to make sure I understand, do you grant or deny the mainstream positions 1) that Jesus was crucified and 2) "that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ" (Gerd Lüdemann, What Really Happened to Jesus, pg. 80, quoted online here)?

 

[sooda]

The "ripoff of the artwork"? Are you commenting on the first century? None of what you just said is relevant to whether Jesus rose from the dead unless you're denying what's mainstream about the resurrection. Just to make sure I understand, do you grant or deny the mainstream positions 1) that Jesus was crucified and 2) "that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ" (Gerd Lüdemann, What Really Happened to Jesus, pg. 80, quoted online here)?

That's quite a website.....

 

[sojourner]

The "ripoff of the artwork"? Are you commenting on the first century? None of what you just said is relevant to whether Jesus rose from the dead unless you're denying what's mainstream about the resurrection. Just to make sure I understand, do you grant or deny the mainstream positions 1) that Jesus was crucified and 2) "that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ" (Gerd Lüdemann, What Really Happened to Jesus, pg. 80, quoted online here)?

Yes. The earliest extant piece of Christian artwork is a stone bas relief panel scene. It is an obvious ripoff of an earlier bas relief of a scene of Augustus-as-savior. The artist merely substituted Jesus for Augustus.

What I’m saying is that the resurrection accounts are highly mythic. Just as mythic, in fact, as the accounts of Augustus.

 

[JJ50]

If Jesus came back to life, why didn't he stick around down here over the centuries? I have asked this question many times but never had a sensible answer.

 

[Muffled]

So, Jesus was only a human being having flesh and bones, not a god or a son of god, he never was.

Regards

I believe you have no valid concepts on this matter. The scriptures tell the truth but without spiritual eyes you will not be able to see it.

 

[Muffled]

Honestly, if something that incredible had happened, such a story to the contrary would not have quelled it. It's like "the earth is round." All the flat earthers in the world can't suppress it.

I believe that is the case which is why you know about it.

 

[JJ50]

I believe you have no valid concepts on this matter. The scriptures tell the truth but without spiritual eyes you will not be able to see it.

How do you know they tell the truth? You have no evidence to back up that claim,you just wish it to be so.

 

[Muffled]

To me the reality of Jesus is His Spirit. The Bible says God is Spirit and to be worshipped in the spirit. So the body is of no importance in the Bible where worshipping God is concerned.

John 4:24

God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth."

We believe that Jesus came in the flesh but today He is with us only in the Spirit.

Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit. His Spirit they could not kill which is what the Jews wanted to kill so that this movement would be discouraged and stopped but they could not kill His Spirit so the movement of Jesus enveloped the earth.

Where is Jesus now? Is He alive or dead? I say He lives on in the hearts and minds of His lovers. Because we cannot see Jesus body walking around now does that mean He is not with us or we cease to believe in Him?

Just like proof of the presence of Jesus body is not a requirement to believe in Jesus today it was not a requirement then. What the disciples saw was the reality of Who Jesus really was.

I worship the light not the lamp. Some unfortunately have woven myths and superstitions around His body and developed a form of cult worship based on worship of His Body. But although His body is nowhere to be seen today yet I see Him alive in my heart and soul and for me I do not require to see His body in order to believe. That is a need for people I believe who weak in faith.

I believe this is lesson one. God is a spirit but Jesus is God in a body.

I believe the body is made holy by the presence of God just as the Temple was made holy by God's presence. However I do agree worshiping the body without recognizing God inside would be sinful.

I believe there is no basis for that belief.

I believe they thought they were killing a man.

I believe He is in heaven building the New Jerusalem.

I believe they saw the reality of a physically risen Jesus. That is what the Bible says.

I believe in order to believe you must keep His words. He said "You must be born again."

 

[Muffled]

How do you know they tell the truth? You have no evidence to back up that claim,you just wish it to be so.

I believe the Holy Spirit confirms the word and explains what might seem a mystery to some. Muslims and any other observer do not have the Holy Spirit.