Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

[Spartan]

You are right.
If Jesus was god and he got resurrected from the dead, then Jesus needed not to disguise himself as gardener. Why was he secretive? He should have openly gone into a crowd of Judaism people and told them that he had performed the miracle he promised to the Jews.
Jesus did not do anything like that. Did he, please?
This is enough proof that he survived a cursed death on the Cross and was just a human being, neither god nor son of god. Right, please?

Regards

Moses had an aura about him also, but that didn't make him an imposter. There were plenty of people who recognized Jesus. Those scriptures are conveniently missing from your arguments.

 

[paarsurrey]

Moses had an aura about him also, but that didn't make him an imposter. There were plenty of people who recognized Jesus. Those scriptures are conveniently missing from your arguments.

We were discussing about Jesus, not Moses. I didn't say Jesus was an impositor. I just said Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross and since he was a human being, he had to move secretly and not openly. Right, please?

Regards

 

[oldbadger]

'Cause Jesus was only a human being. He survived a cursed death on the Cross against all odds, so he did not want to be caught again and get killed. He was therefore secretive and disguised as a gardener. Nothing unusual at all. He had already given hints that he shall have to migrate from the Roman domain. Right, please?

Regards

Here is another possibility.

There were two Jesuses, Jesus son of man, who demonstrated and picketed in the Temple, and Jesus son of the father who caused a riot in the Temple.

One of these was so loved that the people demanded his release, which Pilate allowed.

Christians were so worried about this that they removed one of their names from the bible and deliberately used East Aramaic for his last name..... Bar-Abbas.

Jesus may never have been crucified

 

[paarsurrey]

Here is another possibility.

There were two Jesuses, Jesus son of man, who demonstrated and picketed in the Temple, and Jesus son of the father who caused a riot in the Temple.

One of these was so loved that the people demanded his release, which Pilate allowed.

Christians were so worried about this that they removed one of their names from the bible and deliberately used East Aramaic for his last name..... Bar-Abbas.

Jesus may never have been crucified

I was writing about Jesus son of Mary as mentioned in Quran.
Jesus son of Mary was not a god or son of god, he was as he said "‘I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet"*, a servant of Allah and a prophet.

Regards
_________________
*[[19:17]
And relate the story of Mary as mentioned in the Book. When she withdrew from her people to a place to the east,
[19:18]
And screened herself off from them, then We sent Our angel to her, and he appeared to her in the form of a perfect man.
[19:19]
She said, ‘I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear Him.’
[19:20]
He replied, ‘I am only a Messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee a righteous son.’
[19:21]
She said, ‘How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste?’
[19:22]
He replied, ‘Thus it is.’ But says thy Lord, ‘It is easy for Me; and We shall do so that We may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing decreed.’
[19:23]
So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place.
[19:24]
And the pains of childbirth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, ‘O! would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten!’
[19:25]
Then he called her from beneath her, saying, “Grieve not. Thy Lord has placed a rivulet below thee;
[19:26]
“And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree; it will cause fresh ripe dates to fall upon thee.
[19:27]
“So eat and drink, and cool thy eye. And if thou seest any man, say, ‘I have vowed a fast to the Gracious God; I will therefore not speak this day to any human being.’”
[19:28]
Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, ‘O Mary, thou hast brought forth a strange thing.
[19:29]
‘O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother an unchaste woman!’
[19:30]
Then she pointed to him. They said, ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?’
[19:31]
He said, ‘I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet;
The Holy Quran - Chapter: 19: Maryam

 

[Spartan]

We were discussing about Jesus, not Moses. I didn't say Jesus was an impositor. I just said Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross and since he was a human being, he had to move secretly and not openly. Right, please?
Regards

That's the "Swoon Theory" which has been roundly discredited.

All four Gospels confirmed his death.

 

[Riders]

Sorry, those are not similar. For instance,

A virgin birth is never attributed to Krishna as his parents bore seven previous children. Critics claim Krishna was born to the virgin Maia but according to Hindu texts, he was the eighth son of Princess Devaki and her husband Vasudeva: "You have been born of the divine Devaki and Vasudeva for the protection of Brahma on earth." Mahabharata Bk 12, XLVIII

And Krishna? He wasn't crucified. He was shot by an arrow in a hunting accident. Wikipedia confirms that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishna

Nor is there any confirmation that Krishna was PHYSICALLY resurrected, as the Gospels point out about Jesus.

You should also read this: 23 Reasons Why Scholars Know Jesus Is Not A Copy Of Pagan Religions.

As scholars Nash, McKenzie, etc., have pointed out, the vast majority of so-called pagan myth similarities to Christ are not found until AFTER the life of Jesus. Pagans copied Jesus.

There are similarities between most religions. I did not claim all that.

 

[Riders]

The thing is I'm not sure why Christians even want to prove Jesus was raised from the dead. what does him being raised from the dead do, what was the point? God raising his body from the dead so he can live forever in his body is selfish and serves no purpose. I can see the point of the crucifixion, give your life up for your brothers lay your life down, but resurrection?

 

[Riders]

Here are a bunch of other similarities between Jesus and Krishna.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm

 

[Spartan]

Here are a bunch of other similarities between Jesus and Krishna.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jckr1.htm

Lots of claims on that link but incredibly short on evidence to back those up.

 

[oldbadger]

I was writing about Jesus son of Mary as mentioned in Quran.
Jesus son of Mary was not a god or son of god, he was as he said "‘I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet"*, a servant of Allah and a prophet.

Regards
_________________

Ah, yes........ but WHICH ONE was the son of Mary?

In the last week at Jerusalem one Jesus demonstrated in the Temple, throwing down money-changer's tables and picketing the Temple Courts to stop people passing by. Another Jesus caused a riot in the Temple and city. Both were Jesus, one called 'Son of Man' the other called 'Son of the Father'.

It was all written in early bibles...... so which one was Jesus, Mary's Jesus, please?

 

[Riders]

Lots of claims on that link but incredibly short on evidence to back those up.

Lots of claims on that link but incredibly short on evidence to back those up.

I don't have to back mine up but lots of historians and experts say Christians have many things in common with other religions, so to me experts saying it is proof. However I don't have to back it up you have not presented proof that Jesus died on the cross so.

 

[lukethethird]

We were discussing about Jesus, not Moses. I didn't say Jesus was an impositor. I just said Jesus survived a cursed death on Cross and since he was a human being, he had to move secretly and not openly. Right, please?

Regards

Unless Jesus was a shape shifter.

 

[Riders]

Heres proof biblical scholar and ordained Anglican minister Tomas Harper wrote The Pagan Christ book. Theres lots of experts and biblicals scholars who don't agree with the resurrection.

 

[paarsurrey]

Unless Jesus was a shape shifter.

Jesus was a truthful messenger/prophet of G-d, he was not a "shape shifter", please.

Regards

 

[Spartan]

I don't have to back mine....

Yeah, you do if you want to appear credible.

 

[lukethethird]

Jesus was a truthful messenger/prophet of G-d, he was not a "shape shifter", please.

Regards

What, he can't be both?

 

[Riders]

Yeah, you do if you want to appear credible.

I don't believe so i don't have to prove anything. I'm not making incredilbe statements about a messiah who lived 2000 years ago who was raised from the dead by God. Thats what you do. So your the one who has to prove, I am not trying to prove anything. According to the proof you have submitted there is no proof.

 

[Kilk1]

13“Woman, why are you weeping?” they asked. “Because they have taken my Lord away,” she said, “and I do not know where they have put Him.” 14When she had said this, she turned around andsaw Jesus standing there; but she did not recognizethat it was Jesus. 15“Woman, why are you weeping?” Jesus asked. “Whom are you seeking?” Thinking He was the gardener, she said, “Sir, if you have carried Him off, tell me where you have put Him, and I will get Him.”…

The fact that she thought it was the gardner means it probably was becuase that doesn't make sense.She just wanted to see him Don't use Jesus used many forms in different circumstances, Jesus doing a little magic trick on purpose to make himself look like a gardner makes no sense.

Well, if I just rose from the dead and was going to present myself to those close to me, I may want to make it a surprise. There's no rule barring Jesus from having some humor, right? The next verse, John 20:16 (NKJV), says, "Jesus said to her, 'Mary!' She turned and said to Him, 'Rabboni!' (which is to say, Teacher)." In other words, she realized it was Jesus after He was able to say her name, something a stranger could not have done.

But even without verse 16, you'd still have to deal with the appearances in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8. Here, we have appearances to groups and even to skeptics Paul and James. They wouldn't have been convinced by a random gardener, right?

 

[Spartan]

I don't believe so i don't have to prove anything. I'm not making incredilbe statements about a messiah who lived 2000 years ago who was raised from the dead by God. Thats what you do. So your the one who has to prove, I am not trying to prove anything. According to the proof you have submitted there is no proof.

"proof"? Show me the specific scientific criteria for proving a resurrection, or proving that Peter, John, and Matthew lived?

You ask for something you can't even quantify. Disingenuous.

 

[Riders]

"proof"? Show me the specific scientific criteria for proving a resurrection, or proving that Peter, John, and Matthew lived?

You ask for something you can't even quantify. Disingenuous.

A empty tomb with Jesus name tomb for one of his family tomb for anyone who is not royalty or politican; Written accounts by folks who have been proven to be true, not the usuals you guys use.