Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

[sojourner]

Give me an example from his book, "The Historical Jesus"? Cite the page if you can.

I don’t have to cite an example from his book. I don’t expect John Keats to write a reliable checklist for the space shuttle. He was a great writer and poet, but he wrote poetry, not technical manuals. I don’t have to quote him.

Similarly, Habermas doesn’t have the expertise or credentials to write peer-reviewed scholarly papers regarding the historical Jesus. He’s not that kind of scholar; he’s an apologist.

 

[paarsurrey]

Friend @Spartan and friend @sojourner !

The book "Historical Jesus" is available online in PDF. I quote a sentence from its introduction:

"The overall purpose is to provide a historical context for the original gospel proclamation as provided by Jesus’ disciples at a very early date after the crucifixion itself* ".

[PDF]Evidence for the Historical Jesus - Gary Habermas
www.garyhabermas.com/.../GaryHabermas_Evidence-for-the-historical-Jesus-Release...
Gary R. Habermas, “Evidence for the Historical Jesus: Is the Jesus of History the Christ of ... available free of charge from www.garyhabermas.com/evidence.

Regards
_________
* A little question. What is that early date (after the crucifixion), please?

 

[Spartan]

Friend @Spartan and friend @sojourner !

The book "Historical Jesus" is available online in PDF. I quote a sentence from its introduction:

"The overall purpose is to provide a historical context for the original gospel proclamation as provided by Jesus’ disciples at a very early date after the crucifixion itself* ".

[PDF]Evidence for the Historical Jesus - Gary Habermas
www.garyhabermas.com/.../GaryHabermas_Evidence-for-the-historical-Jesus-Release...
Gary R. Habermas, “Evidence for the Historical Jesus: Is the Jesus of History the Christ of ... available free of charge from www.garyhabermas.com/evidence.

Regards
_________
* A little question. What is that early date (after the crucifixion), please?

Have you never heard of the earliest mention of the resurrection?

Earliest Mention of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ

 

[paarsurrey]

"The overall purpose is to provide a historical context for the original gospel proclamation as provided by Jesus’ disciples at a very early date after the crucifixion itself* ".

Have you never heard of the earliest mention of the resurrection?

Earliest Mention of the Resurrection of Jesus Christ

Please give me the date. Right, please?

Regards

 

[Spartan]

I don’t have to cite an example from his book. I don’t expect John Keats to write a reliable checklist for the space shuttle. He was a great writer and poet, but he wrote poetry, not technical manuals. I don’t have to quote him.

Similarly, Habermas doesn’t have the expertise or credentials to write peer-reviewed scholarly papers regarding the historical Jesus. He’s not that kind of scholar; he’s an apologist.

He's a peer-reviewed scholar who has authored numerous books and published over 100 articles and reviews in peer-reviewed journals. And I'll match his credentials against yours any day. Here's his:

Dr. Gary R. Habermas is Distinguished Research Professor and chair of the Department of Philosophy and Theology at Liberty University. He also teaches in the Ph.D. program in theology and apologetics at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. He earned the Ph.D. at Michigan State University and the M.A. from the University of Detroit. He has authored, coauthored, or edited thirty-six books and contributed more than sixty chapters or articles to other books. He has also written well over one hundred articles and reviews for journals and other publications. While his chief areas of research (and the topic of eighteen of his books) are issues related to Jesus' resurrection, he has also published frequently on the afterlife as well as the subjects of suffering and religious doubt. Visit his Web site (Dr. Gary R. Habermas - Online Resource for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ) to access some of his publications. Over the past fourteen years, he has often been a visiting or adjunct professor, having taught courses at some fifteen different graduate schools and seminaries in the United States and abroad.

 

[Spartan]

"The overall purpose is to provide a historical context for the original gospel proclamation as provided by Jesus’ disciples at a very early date after the crucifixion itself* ".

Please give me the date. Right, please?

Regards

What? You're going to genuflect to Jesus if you get a date? LOL!

According to various studies on Daniel chapter 9, Jesus entered Jerusalem as the Messiah on April 6, 32 AD - Palm Sunday - to fulfill Daniel's prophecy of the Messiah. The resurrection was the following Sunday, so the crucifixion would have been three days earlier, on April 10th. The calculations are in the following link:

The Unexpected King: Palm Sunday Surprise: – Chuck Missler – Koinonia House

 

[sojourner]

He's a peer-reviewed scholar who has authored numerous books and published over 100 articles and reviews in peer-reviewed journals. And I'll match his credentials against yours any day. Here's his:

Dr. Gary R. Habermas is Distinguished Research Professor and chair of the Department of Philosophy and Theology at Liberty University. He also teaches in the Ph.D. program in theology and apologetics at Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary. He earned the Ph.D. at Michigan State University and the M.A. from the University of Detroit. He has authored, coauthored, or edited thirty-six books and contributed more than sixty chapters or articles to other books. He has also written well over one hundred articles and reviews for journals and other publications. While his chief areas of research (and the topic of eighteen of his books) are issues related to Jesus' resurrection, he has also published frequently on the afterlife as well as the subjects of suffering and religious doubt. Visit his Web site (Dr. Gary R. Habermas - Online Resource for the Resurrection of Jesus Christ) to access some of his publications. Over the past fourteen years, he has often been a visiting or adjunct professor, having taught courses at some fifteen different graduate schools and seminaries in the United States and abroad.

Liberty University is all I needed to have. The man is an apologist. Period. Not an exegete.

 

[Spartan]

Liberty University is all I needed to have. The man is an apologist. Period. Not an exegete.

That's stupid. As if all Christian apologists are liars, idiots and charlatans. The one in the dark is you.

 

[sojourner]

That's stupid. As if all Christian apologists are liars, idiots and charlatans. The one in the dark is you.

Didn’t say they were liars and in the dark. You said that. But apologetics is a different discipline from exegetics. Apologists work from a premise of faith. Exegetes work from a premise of fact.

 

[samtonga43]

Aren't there any apologists who are also exegetes?

 

[sojourner]

Aren't there any apologists who are also exegetes?

There probably are, just as there are doctors who are also lawyers.
But I wouldn’t want an attorney doing neck surgery on me.

 

[Muffled]

I agree with you that he was not not a witness .
I understand that Saul of Tarsus aka Paul of Pagan-Christianity was not a witness of the event of Cross. None of the Gospels say so. I understand that when Jesus went out of Judea secretly as per his plan, after treatment of his injuries inflicted upon him on the Cross, Paul who was an enemy of Jesus could quench his revenge from Jesus and from his disciple no more, so with a fake vision he appointed himself as a disciple/Apostle of Jesus. Sure Paul was not among the twelve. Right, please?

Regards

I believe Paul did not have a fake vision and there is no evidence that he did.For a person to make the change from being an enemy of Jesus to an adherent there had to have been a monumental event.

I believe Paul was filled with the Holy Spirit and certainly God is a witness so that makes Paul one also, just not a witness present at the event.

I believe there is no evidence that ever happened. Jesus was raised from the dead.

 

[Muffled]

There probably are, just as there are doctors who are also lawyers.
But I wouldn’t want an attorney doing neck surgery on me.

I believe that is not a proper analogy. An apologist can use good exegesis in his apology but a a lawyer can't use surgery in defense or prosecution of a defendant.. He can use knowledge of medicine so perhaps that is where there is a similarity.

 

[sojourner]

I believe that is not a proper analogy. An apologist can use good exegesis in his apology but a a lawyer can't use surgery in defense or prosecution of a defendant.. He can use knowledge of medicine so perhaps that is where there is a similarity.

It’s a great analogy, because of the end result. An apologist can use exegesis in his apology. Unfortunately, apology isn’t what we’re after here — it’s exegesis we’re after.

 

[samtonga43]

Is there no one who uses apology in exegesis?

 

[Spartan]

Didn’t say they were liars and in the dark. You said that. But apologetics is a different discipline from exegetics. Apologists work from a premise of faith. Exegetes work from a premise of fact.

There's historical apologists like Dr. Gary Habermas who work from the EVIDENCE. You can find these evidences in books that Habermas wrote, although getting a skeptic to read one is like pulling teeth from a chicken. They don't want to read anything that screws up their historically-challenged bias.

Recommended reading for sojourner:

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;
"The Historical Jesus of the Gospels, by Dr. Craig Keener
"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;
"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;
"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and
"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

 

[Spartan]

I don’t have to cite an example from his book. I don’t expect John Keats to write a reliable checklist for the space shuttle. He was a great writer and poet, but he wrote poetry, not technical manuals. I don’t have to quote him.

Similarly, Habermas doesn’t have the expertise or credentials to write peer-reviewed scholarly papers regarding the historical Jesus. He’s not that kind of scholar; he’s an apologist.

You haven't even read Habermas so save that hubris for someone else.

 

[sojourner]

There's historical apologists like Dr. Gary Habermas who work from the EVIDENCE. You can find these evidences in books that Habermas wrote, although getting a skeptic to read one is like pulling teeth from a chicken. They don't want to read anything that screws up their historically-challenged bias.

Recommended reading for sojourner:

"The Historical Jesus," by scholar Dr. Gary Habermas;
"The Historical Jesus of the Gospels, by Dr. Craig Keener
"New Evidence that Demands a Verdict," by former skeptic Josh McDowell;
"Baker Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics," by Dr. Norman Geisler;
"The Case for Christ," by Lee Strobel," and
"The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus," by Dr. Gary Habermas.

Sure, but they extrapolate too much to make their case.

 

[sojourner]

You haven't even read Habermas so save that hubris for someone else.

Don’t need to. Liberty University tells me all I need to know. It’s a Falwell Produktion. I distrust anything spawned by such a disingenuous person.

 

[samtonga43]

Don’t need to. Liberty University tells me all I need to know. It’s a Falwell Produktion. I distrust anything spawned by such a disingenuous person.

Logically fallacious. (Genetic)