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Did Jesus Die For Everyone's Sins Or Only For Those Who Believe In Him?
- Thread starter Sunstone
- Start date
Good question!:yes: Although i have a problem with accepting the fact that God allowed his only son to go through such torment in order for us to be saved. If one of God's principles is to "forgive and forget" then why wouldn't he just forgive us if we repented? Why does death have to be a resolution to be forgived?Sunstone said:
dbakerman76
God's Nephew
I hate the idea of God requiring someone's blood to appease him. So rather than state my own views, I will state one of the classic Universalist positions on the matter.If we accept the premise that Jesus died for our sins, it doesn't make sense if he just died for those who believed in him. Because in the course of a lifetime someone goes from disbelief to belief and vice a versa. In other words, today he didn't die for my sins but tomorrow he probably will. How can we subject the atonement to the whims of each and every individual? It just doesn't make sense.
Of course, I can argue both sides of any argument. So if no one else jumps in I will just argue amongst myselves.
Oh well.
Now that I've said that
Of course, I can argue both sides of any argument. So if no one else jumps in I will just argue amongst myselves.
Oh well.
Now that I've said that
lunamoth
Will to love
Sunstone said:
I don't really think of it as cleansing of sins. One way I heard it put is that by His death Christ exhausted the power of evil. I'd add to this that He accomplished this by showing us the breadth and depth of perfect love, and a merging of His identity with ours.
I actually also like what Katz said, but with a tiny spin as well: those who believe (trust) in Him (Love) are redeemed, and yes not everyone gets around to that in this life. Many do but use other language to describe it.
luna
Sonic247
Well-Known Member
This is Christianity 101 of course he died for all men
1st Timothy 2:6- Who (Jesus)gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Or else how could he judge the world for not recieving him when he never died for them in the first place? The punishment for sin is death, Jesus could die in our place because he was without sin,"..the just for the unjust."
Hebrews 9:22-And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
1st Timothy 2:6- Who (Jesus)gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
Or else how could he judge the world for not recieving him when he never died for them in the first place? The punishment for sin is death, Jesus could die in our place because he was without sin,"..the just for the unjust."
Hebrews 9:22-And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
A
A. Leaf
Guest
When one goes through ones life and finds God and is brought into rememberance for doing things in ones life that we would call a Sin, Individuals could possibly go into a mental and spiritual meltdown, thats why it is important to understand the teachings, sacrafice and Ressurection of JC (not the Jewish Chronicles) not matter what your faith, so you can teach others in your religion. For all Religion is equal, 'Love' the immortal principal of existence. Christianity must be understood in the name of Sin. Of course if you come from any religion or no religion at all and just love and appreciate the gift of the creation then lovely nothing to worry about, and when one is brought into rememberance, you will know about it. Personal point of view of course.
Sonic247
Well-Known Member
If you want to go with what the Bible says then he died for everyone, but if not you can make up your own opinion, but if the Bible wasn't true there would be no way to really know why he died. So I'm not sure this would be something that can even be argued about, unless someone says that the Bible doesn't say he died for everyone, but that would be hard to do. Everyone can come to Jesus for life, but some people won't. Eternal life is still offered to everyone though, but many people would rather have excessive amounts of earthly pleasure (which actually ends up causing pain even in this life.)
I'm confused. You're not really answering the question in the OP, which is whose sins are cleansed by Jesus' death. You say that Jesus died for everyone yet go on to say "everyone can come to Jesus for life," implying that those who don't go to Jesus - in other words, don't believe in him - don't have everlasting life. In which case Jesus' death cleanses only the sins of those who believe in him. Is that what you're trying to say?Sonic247 said:
Sunstone said:
Neither.
Sunstone said:
Jesus' death was the final requirement of the Father in establishing the kingdom of heaven in the human soul. His resurrection is the evidence that this mission has been accomplished. The only question that has remained since then has been, do you want to be a part of this kingdom, or keep your own? Those who want to be part of the kingdom of heaven have all the access to the merits of Christ's sacrifice that is necessary. Those who don't, wouldn't be benefited by it any amount of it, because it wouldn't inspire them to relinquish their kingdom. In other words, it cleanses those who want to be cleansed.
cturne
servant of God
uumckk16 said:
I am not speaking for Sonic, but I have a clarification for you. What I believe Sonic is saying is that Jesus died for everyone's sins (therefore everyone has been cleansed of sin) but not everyone accepts Jesus as having done that, and therefor do not reap the benefits (ie, eternal life in Heaven). See if this example helps to make sense of this (this is something our Pastor told us in a Bible study):
Suppose the governor of your state proclaimed that everyone in Penitentiary XYZ has been pardoned. The slate has been wiped clean, and all are free to go and live in freedom, with no past record. The doors of the cells are opened, the gates of the prison open and everyone is told they are free to leave. Many go out the gates to live in freedom. (These are the believers) However, there are a few who do not leave - they are suspicious - they think it's a trap, or a trick. So they stay in prison. Their crimes have been pardoned just like the ones who left, but they do not get the benefit of the pardon because they did not believe.
Therefore, Jesus has paid the price for everyone's sins, but not everyone reaps the benefits because not everyone believes.