Did Jesus say he was God???

[Dirty Penguin]

Doesn't Son mean Son, just as Father means Father (life giver)?

There are many "sons" in the OT. Yeshua being called son wasn't any different.

Since God is unbegotten and the Son is begotten doesn't that make Jesus Son?

Remember, the book of John...a much later gospel, is the only place that says that. I think that was more of the writers opinion than it was "fact".....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yes there are many 'sons' in the Hebrew Scriptures.
What about being called: 'sons of God' ?
Genesis [6:4] calling the angels sons of God.
Adam [at Luke 3:38] is called son of God.

No Bible writes wrote that God was begotten.
God is Un-begotten.

Isn't John being more descriptive in complimenting what was already written by calling Jesus God's only-begotten Son? Since Jesus was 'firstborn' in the heavens before anything else [Col 1:15,16] and all other things were created by God through his only-begotten Son, then all of the other 'sons', heavenly or on earth, are not 'only' begotten but just begotten.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

No Bible writes wrote that God was begotten.

The writers of Mark doesn't appear to view the biblical Yeshua like that. It has already been said and is known the writers such as Matthew and Luke most likely drew a lot of their material from mark. John is so far out in left field on this one. The line of only begotten is solely his opinion of Yeshua. Remember, scholars give a time frame for the writing of this scroll around 80 to a 100 AD. 50 to 70 years well after the supposed crucifixion of the biblical Yeshua. I think it's safe to say this writer never met Yeshua. It appears he's writing more of a story, kind of like a play, rather than history.


How do you interpret the word (begotten)? What's the meaning of it you go by? Some say "born" and some say "made"...... I personally think it's a problem interpreting it either way.....

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The writers of Mark doesn't appear to view the biblical Yeshua like that. It has already been said and is known the writers such as Matthew and Luke most likely drew a lot of their material from mark. John is so far out in left field on this one. The line of only begotten is solely his opinion of Yeshua. Remember, scholars give a time frame for the writing of this scroll around 80 to a 100 AD. 50 to 70 years well after the supposed crucifixion of the biblical Yeshua. I think it's safe to say this writer never met Yeshua. It appears he's writing more of a story, kind of like a play, rather than history.
How do you interpret the word (begotten)? What's the meaning of it you go by? Some say "born" and some say "made"...... I personally think it's a problem interpreting it either way.....

Why do you call Jesus by the Hebrew Yeshua,
Yet do not use Hebrew or Greek names for the rest?
The Christian Greek Scriptures would have Jesus name as Iesous.
The Latinized form in English is Jesus.
Can you answer the names at Proverbs 30:4 ?____________

John was at the Last Supper so yes he met and knew Jesus Yeshua Iesous.

God is Un-begotten. Psalm 90:2 says God is from everlasting.
God had no beginning.

Greek-English Lexicon has the Greek word for only-begotten as 'monogenes' and defined by lexicographers as: single of its kind, only.

Logos or Word is also singular. Logos or the Word was not before the beginning as God was before the beginning. Rev 3:14 B.

Angels of heaven are sons of God, even as Adam was a son of God.
[Genesis 6:2,4; Job 1-6; 38:7; Luke 3:38]

Only-begotten makes the Logos [Word] one of a kind, single of its kind, the only direct creation by God by being God's heavenly 'firstborn' or only-begotten Son (Col 1:15,16). The Son through whom everything in heaven and every thing on earth came into existence.

 

[Snowber]

Dear Muffled,

I know everyone hates references and maybe 1% of the time people actually read the references but Lisa Spray has written a book called "Jesus Myths and Message" that, I believe, shows Jesus's true message to mankind and rebukes the idea that Jesus claimed to be GOD.


FREE Online version of Lisa Spray's book

 

[Dware]

I think its pretty clear Jesus claimed to be God.

 

[look3467]

1. Adam a son of God became lost because of knowledge of good and evil.
2. A second son of God, a type of Adam, already invested with the full Godhead bodily, was God.
3. The third man type of Adam is the new creation Adam, that being the resurrected Christ.

Sequence:
1st Adam brought the flesh and death
2nd type Adam brought life
The third type Adam is the new creation, or the beginning of mankind with life.

All those in Christ the third man Adam are the ew creation, the beginning of mankind.

God creates, God saves His creation with the beginning of a new creation.

Notice in that last sentence, that God does all the work?

Blessings, AJ

 

[Ba'al]

I think its pretty clear Jesus claimed to be God.

I know you are a newbie and this is a long thread but maybe if you read from the beginning you wouldn't need to post elementary arguments that have been successfully rebutted. Then we wouldn't need to discuss the same point over and over and over.....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I think its pretty clear Jesus claimed to be God.

If it were you wouldn't be the 2009th response. The thread would have been over before it began....


Oh...

Welcome to RF.....

 

[Dware]

I know you are a newbie and this is a long thread but maybe if you read from the beginning you wouldn't need to post elementary arguments that have been successfully rebutted. Then we wouldn't need to discuss the same point over and over and over.....

Rebutted says who? you?

Well i have news for you sweetie, Millions of people including me do not agree with you, hard to imagine right? :angel2:

 

[Ba'al]

Rebutted says who? you?

Well i have news for you sweetie, Millions of people including me do not agree with you, hard to imagine right? :angel2:

This thread is in the debate forum. That means providing some evidence through scripture whether Jesus said he was God, not just posting that you think he did. Try to post something that has not already been said so members here can refute it or not. Most likely your point has been argued before.

 

[Dware]

This thread is in the debate forum. That means providing some evidence through scripture whether Jesus said he was God, not just posting that you think he did. Try to post something that has not already been said so members here can refute it or not. Most likely your point has been argued before.

There are tons of scriptures that state Jesus was God, lol. Ill start with a simple one for ya.
John 10:30, “I and the Father are one.” ok debate that. good luck! :angel2:

 

[Ba'al]

Yes, Christians sure love using John to point Jesus' divinity even though it's authenticity is questioned by scholars. But if we look at John (10:30) let's at least look at it's context.

John (10:28-30)I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one.

Jesus clearly points out that it's his father that is greater than all , not him. Jesus makes similar statements in:

John (17:20-22) Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; 21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one

Jesus is speaking of his disciples here and by your reasoning it says they all are God. Is that what you believe? All the disciples and Jesus are God? Ofcourse not. It means they are one in purpose.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Why do you call Jesus by the Hebrew Yeshua,
Yet do not use Hebrew or Greek names for the rest?

Because I want to and because there's nothing wrong with doing so.

Can you answer the names at Proverbs 30:4 ?____________

It has absolutely nothing to do with the biblical Yeshua if that is what you're trying to insinuate.

John was at the Last Supper so yes he met and knew Jesus Yeshua Iesous.

John was a common name just as James, Saul, Yeshua, and David were common names. It would be a stretch to conclude one of the men named "John" was the author of that book.

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Way to many posts for me to look through, but this quote on the OP states everything beautifully:
"John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God"
This states that every man has God in them. Be he Jesus or Bo Jangles. Divinity is within for all to see. Jesus was more attuned than most can ever hope to be, but that does not make him God.

 

[look3467]

Way to many posts for me to look through, but this quote on the OP states everything beautifully:
"John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God"
This states that every man has God in them. Be he Jesus or Bo Jangles. Divinity is within for all to see. Jesus was more attuned than most can ever hope to be, but that does not make him God.

There is a difference between making oneself as God, and another being born of God.

The latter is preferred since that is the point of the beginning of life.

Everyone has a conscience to begin with as it is the part that guides us to note a difference between what is right and wrong.

The conscience can be seared to where it can make no distinction between what is good and what is not good.

But definitely, the breath of life in the flesh is as of a son of man, and not a son of God.
A rebirth is required to become a son of God.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

The conscience can be seared to where it can make no distinction between what is good and what is not good.

What do you mean by this?

 

[look3467]

What do you mean by this?

I'll let the bible give you and answer: 1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Meaning, the conscience of no effect.

This is what is every soul as a conscience: Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

If there is no conscience within towards the law unto themselves, then the conscience is seared.

Blessings, AJ

 

[Hevenly Heathen]

Does Rom 2:14 mean that having conscience sealed the law is adhered to or carried out naturally? Meaning that they no longer need to consider law because the obey it without thought?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Way to many posts for me to look through, but this quote on the OP states everything beautifully:
"John 10:33 ... thou being a man makest Thyself God"
This states that every man has God in them. Be he Jesus or Bo Jangles. Divinity is within for all to see. Jesus was more attuned than most can ever hope to be, but that does not make him God.

The same Greek grammar rule applies at John 10:33 as it does at Acts 28:6.
KJV did not insert the letter 'a' at John as at Acts.
So the Jews, not Jesus, were saying make yourself 'a' god. Psalm 82:6
Reading down to John 10:36 b there Jesus answers them that they said Jesus blasphemed because Jesus said, "I am the Son of God".