Did Jesus say he was God???

[Muffled]

]It is quite unlikely that Jesus claimed to be God, because given his background, i.e. an observant Jew, anybody saying that would have been taken for a madman. [/COLOR]Accordingly, the unifying theme of the gospels is that the disciples do not realise that Jesus is the son of God, while of course the point of the narration is to prove that he is. Given this trope of the texts, it is understandable why teh authors of the gospels but clues here and there, but not overt claims. When the gospels were written the judeo-christian branches of early christianity still existed who considered Jesus teh messiah, but not in the sense of son of God, and who did not attribute any special significance to his death. The gospels were written as theological statements in distinction to other views, not as historical accounts.

Actually the accusation was blasphemy. Words don't mean much unless they can be backed up. Jesus backed up His words by rising from the dead. All this really says about the Jewish leadership of His time is that it was far removed from God.

Scripture does not support this view.

I doubt there is any evidence to back this up. I don't view the Bible as an attempt to write history. I believe that it is inspired by God so that man can know Him better. Granted the eyewitness accounts have historical significance.

 

[Muffled]

You say that you are trying to find evidence of the divinity of Jesue, what you have done is quote passages from the bible, which cannot be taken as the literal revealed word of Jesus, as most of it was written many years after his death and therefore would be hearsay and is third party 'evidence'.

That is easily resolvable. Ask Him. I get called on the carpet once in a while but never for this. You would think that anything as important as this, He would be on my case in an instant but intead all I am getting from Him is approval.

However, in lieu of hearing from God (some people have trouble with it) a third party account will have to do.

 

[Muffled]

Thanks and thanks for the link. I get it now. I suspected as much.

Yes! of course you could expect a Jew to not have a clue because they use human thinking which is flawed instead of divine thinking.

However careful exegesis reveals that only two are angels and the third man is God. You don't get careful exegesis from Jews because they have pre-conceived notions.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes! of course you could expect a Jew to not have a clue because they use human thinking which is flawed instead of divine thinking.

Sheesh...man! I just wanted the opinion of a Jew. Whether you agree with him or not was not the reason I asked.

 

[Ardipithecus]

That is nothing more than Jewish hype on the image commandment.

Rubbish.

There is the burning bush.

The burning bush is significant because of the Jewish Pagan past. Their god included the Fire God, It might have happened near Sinai as Moses traveled. There are vents in the rocky plateau in which Methane gas issues. At times these this bursts of CH4 would be ignited by humans or other natural phenomena. Moses merged the Fire God, the Wind God and others to form JHWY.

Of course there is also God's bodily visit to Abraham before the destruction of Sodom.

I never heard of that. Does not the Bible say that God visited Lot before the catastrophe at Sodom and Gomorrah? Abraham was long fossilized by then. Here again is the Fire God symbolism. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed by fire and brimstone. Jews might have assumed JHWH, the Fire God did it. Actually Geologists note that Sodom and Gomorrah were right smack on the Jordan/Dead Sea Transform fault.

This is a transform fault similar to the San Andreas fault. The Jordan River tectonic fault has erupted in several lava flows (like the Golan Heights. It is caused by the northern extension of the African Plate also pushing against the Arabian plate. There is a older smaller plate, the Sinai Plate that will eventually be joined to the Arabian Plate.

This area suffers frequent earthquakes. Geologists note that the Sodom and Gomorrah fable mentions fire and brimstone. Brimstone is Sulphur. The fire was possibly lava or burning Methane. It is bad enough to live on a dangerous tectonic zone but there are oil and natural gas pockets in the area. The spreading of a rift separated Arabia from Africa. The subsurface oil and gas deposits have been lumped into vast pockets.

The Bible story is describing an eruption of the Jordan Transform plate. So much lava and dust/dirt exploded in huge clouds, that the Magma chamber collapsed causing the Dead Sea deep valley.

The fire and brimstone typically occur in Africa, the US Southwest, Washington State, Idaho, East Africa, and the greatest of all was the Siberian Traps that 250 million years ago spread a vast lava field bigger than half of the continental USA. So much flammable gas, toxic gases, and dust erupted that it caused the Great Permian extinction when 96% of all living species went extinct.

I expect that pressures are building up for another massive event in the Jordan Valley Fault Zone.

Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it isn't there. If you had Jesus as Lord and Savior you would be able to see the truth instead of all the sinful attitudes you have towards God.

Just because I don't believe in Jesus, the virgin birth, crucifixion, and the Resurrection does not disprove them. However in a logical debate, I do not need to disprove them to dismiss them. The believer's claims are totally unsupported by any evidence apart from hearsay.The Burden of proof is on the believer to provide irrefutable evidence in his belief. Until then I have no obligation to believe in Judaism, Christianity, Islam, or Hinduism. Judaism, Christianity, Islam, and Hinduism have provided no convincing evidence.

The Sodom and Gomorrah fable and the Exodus Story have evidence of Geotectonic activity that confirms well to the Bible's descripture (minus God of course.)

Ardipithecus

 

[Ardipithecus]

Yes! of course you could expect a Jew to not have a clue because they use human thinking which is flawed instead of divine thinking.

Human thinking may be flawed. Divine thinking is imaginary. There is no evidence that your imaginary god thinks. Everything reported to be God's word in the Scriptures is flawed because it is HUMAN THINKING and SUPERSTITION.

However careful exegesis reveals that only two are angels and the third man is God. You don't get careful exegesis from Jews because they have pre-conceived notions.

Logic, reason, analytical thinking depends on a strong Sceptical Filter in the brain. If a man dissects a belief and submits it to rational analysis, then runs the data through the Sceptical Filter (also called the Rubbish Filter.) If the data has structural flaws, factual errors, and contradictions the HEALTHY BRAIN rejects it.

People with either a weak analytical network or a leaky sceptical filter will fail to notice the quite obvious flaws, untruths, mythical faerie tales, contradictions, and acts contrary to the laws of physics and biology.

I believe that people who believe in such rubbish as Genesis 1,2 and the virgin born god-man who is crucified and resurrects must be impaired in logic and reason, whose sceptical filter has been so neglected that it accepts really goofy rubbish. Why do they bypass their analytical thinking and ignore rational flaws?

It is the delusion of Immortality that is an unsupported assumption is held onto by magical belief (the resurrection of Jesus by divine magic.) If the saviour is immortal, then the believer thinks it guarantees the Delusion of Immortality.

Such people are sad in my opinion because they are missing the beauty and majesty of nature, mathematics, the Universe and the physical laws that allowed bipedal apes to think, talk, and reason. Over time a portion of those bipedal apes developed a higher more practiced logical-rational brain and efficient sceptical filter. We wanted to know. We are unhappy with unquestioned belief. We shed the chains of superstition warping man's mind and the shackles blocking his intellect. That is true freedom.

Ardipithecus

 

[Ardipithecus]

That is easily resolvable. Ask Him. I get called on the carpet once in a while but never for this. You would think that anything as important as this, He would be on my case in an instant but intead all I am getting from Him is approval.

However, in lieu of hearing from God (some people have trouble with it) a third party account will have to do.

Many people who hear voices of an invisible god or demon have long filled rooms of Psychiatric Hospitals. The problem is that the voices too often tell mothers to kill their babies because Satan is in the babies. Too often hallucinations lead people to do harmful acts against themselves or others. Maurice Clemens of Tacoma, Washington, shot and killed 4 Lakewood police officers because God told him they were evil. In the past he often shouted Christian Fundamentalist slogans at passing cars and throwing rocks at them.

Christian Delusions can sometimes engender good behaviour and compassion. They are Christians who pay more attention to what Jesus said in the Gospels. However, there are Christian Fundamentalists and Pentecostals who frequently hallucinate, babble in glossolalia (Linguistic rational dissociation), shake in seizures or fake seizures, close their eyes, arms up, and making pelvic thrusts suggestive of sex. I have personally seen this. It is very bizarre and a bit scary. It seems sick to me. These are people who ignore the words of Jesus but deify him into a full God. JHWY is quietly locked in the closet.

Ardipithecus

"The Clergy hate me because they know, that I know, that they do not know." - Robert G. Ingersoll, 1884

 

[Poet-Troll]

Many people who hear voices of an invisible god or demon have long filled rooms of Psychiatric Hospitals. The problem is that the voices too often tell mothers to kill their babies because Satan is in the babies. Too often hallucinations lead people to do harmful acts against themselves or others. Maurice Clemens of Tacoma, Washington, shot and killed 4 Lakewood police officers because God told him they were evil. In the past he often shouted Christian Fundamentalist slogans at passing cars and throwing rocks at them.

Christian Delusions can sometimes engender good behaviour and compassion. They are Christians who pay more attention to what Jesus said in the Gospels. However, there are Christian Fundamentalists and Pentecostals who frequently hallucinate, babble in glossolalia (Linguistic rational dissociation), shake in seizures or fake seizures, close their eyes, arms up, and making pelvic thrusts suggestive of sex. I have personally seen this. It is very bizarre and a bit scary. It seems sick to me. These are people who ignore the words of Jesus but deify him into a full God. JHWY is quietly locked in the closet.

Ardipithecus

"The Clergy hate me because they know, that I know, that they do not know." - Robert G. Ingersoll, 1884

I thank you, Ardipithecus,
For saying without fuss or muss
The truth to this fair populus.
I follow Jesus, so I hope,
And not the president or pope.
So doing, the very concerns
You voice come to me in their turns.
I fancy how you note the breed
Who worship god with pelvic speed.
Religion's not just a mislabel,
It's insane too, and tower of Babel.

 

[arimoff]

Yes! of course you could expect a Jew to not have a clue because they use human thinking which is flawed instead of divine thinking.

However careful exegesis reveals that only two are angels and the third man is God. You don't get careful exegesis from Jews because they have pre-conceived notions.

yes and Christians have the divine thinking, I would say Christianity lacks logic since it came out of the so called flawed thinking how can it self be divine.

I haven't read one worthy opinion of yours witch is worth a discussion, all you do is call Jews names rather then use knowledge, no wonder we never accepted what you offered, we past that already.

 

[Zardoz]

...I haven't read one worthy opinion of yours witch is worth a discussion, all you do is call Jews names rather then use knowledge, no wonder we never accepted what you offered, we past that already.

That's what the ignore list is for, brother.

 

[David69]

Many people who hear voices of an invisible god or demon have long filled rooms of Psychiatric Hospitals. The problem is that the voices too often tell mothers to kill their babies because Satan is in the babies. Too often hallucinations lead people to do harmful acts against themselves or others. Maurice Clemens of Tacoma, Washington, shot and killed 4 Lakewood police officers because God told him they were evil. In the past he often shouted Christian Fundamentalist slogans at passing cars and throwing rocks at them.

Christian Delusions can sometimes engender good behaviour and compassion. They are Christians who pay more attention to what Jesus said in the Gospels. However, there are Christian Fundamentalists and Pentecostals who frequently hallucinate, babble in glossolalia (Linguistic rational dissociation), shake in seizures or fake seizures, close their eyes, arms up, and making pelvic thrusts suggestive of sex. I have personally seen this. It is very bizarre and a bit scary. It seems sick to me. These are people who ignore the words of Jesus but deify him into a full God. JHWY is quietly locked in the closet.

Ardipithecus

"The Clergy hate me because they know, that I know, that they do not know." - Robert G. Ingersoll, 1884

Thers psycosos (or how ever you spell it) and thers people that see and hear things that are real and its to do with a real communication chemical in the brain. and these communicators can destinguish the difference between what is real and what is imagined!

 

[AK4]

Human thinking may be flawed. Divine thinking is imaginary. There is no evidence that your imaginary god thinks. Everything reported to be God's word in the Scriptures is flawed because it is HUMAN THINKING and SUPERSTITION.



Logic, reason, analytical thinking depends on a strong Sceptical Filter in the brain. If a man dissects a belief and submits it to rational analysis, then runs the data through the Sceptical Filter (also called the Rubbish Filter.) If the data has structural flaws, factual errors, and contradictions the HEALTHY BRAIN rejects it.

People with either a weak analytical network or a leaky sceptical filter will fail to notice the quite obvious flaws, untruths, mythical faerie tales, contradictions, and acts contrary to the laws of physics and biology.

I believe that people who believe in such rubbish as Genesis 1,2 and the virgin born god-man who is crucified and resurrects must be impaired in logic and reason, whose sceptical filter has been so neglected that it accepts really goofy rubbish. Why do they bypass their analytical thinking and ignore rational flaws?

It is the delusion of Immortality that is an unsupported assumption is held onto by magical belief (the resurrection of Jesus by divine magic.) If the saviour is immortal, then the believer thinks it guarantees the Delusion of Immortality.

Such people are sad in my opinion because they are missing the beauty and majesty of nature, mathematics, the Universe and the physical laws that allowed bipedal apes to think, talk, and reason. Over time a portion of those bipedal apes developed a higher more practiced logical-rational brain and efficient sceptical filter. We wanted to know. We are unhappy with unquestioned belief. We shed the chains of superstition warping man's mind and the shackles blocking his intellect. That is true freedom.

Ardipithecus

It amases me how you guys think that those who have faith dont know how to reason or even reason. What do you think we have to do when we are shown that there are many "Jesus' stories" out there? What do you think those who keep the faith and still debunk all the man made doctrines of christianity and all the other myths of out there do?

Have you ever thought that those who are able to keep believing in God and debunk myths about God might actually be on a higher "level" of reasoning than those who can only debunk myths and only believe in "nature" and the universe? Those of us who still believe in God and believe the science and able to see through the myths and stories just might be on a higher plane of reasoning than you guys who basically worship nature and creation....the things actually created by God.

 

[David69]

They lack the necessary chemical of communication to understand but even the toughest nut can crack to let in the glorious light... JMO

 

[AK4]

They lack the necessary chemical of communication to understand but even the toughest nut can crack to let in the glorious light... JMO

Exactly. How do one reason that chemicals communicate, make emotions and on and on? How do they reason these chemicals can do this on their own?

 

[David69]

Exactly. How do one reason that chemicals communicate, make emotions and on and on? How do they reason these chemicals can do this on their own?

They would never understand or accept simply because they have not experienced and realised that experience. The door is firmly shut.

Like your sig btw AK4
Usually to see a truth in the correct perspective is a matter of turning it upside down IMO

 

[AK4]

They would never understand or accept simply because they have not experienced and realised that experience. The door is firmly shut.

Like your sig btw AK4
Usually to see a truth in the correct perspective is a matter of turning it upside down IMO

Thanks and absolutely. The only thing i didnt add to it was "or destroy that truth", but even so, if it destroys that truth previously held you start over from the truth you just discovered and start the whole process over again.

 

[David69]

Thanks and absolutely. The only thing i didnt add to it was "or destroy that truth", but even so, if it destroys that truth previously held you start over from the truth you just discovered and start the whole process over again.

No man, you didnt add that for a reason... it is spot on the way it is. infact your sig resinates with with me and my experiences and how I come to the same conclusion.. in a big way.
Just do what you do and no more.
Power to your dreams!
You can only make a sig like that through personal experience and with true understanding IMO
Leave no stone unturned eh!

I learned of the chemical through experience and curiosity got me to search science for answers... The chemical is made in the pinial gland, its dmt! beleive it or not.
When under certain cercumstances ie; shock, panic, fear, near death, dream, trance, etc... That chemical rises to allow us to communicate on a higher level.
It makes doors slam, manifest ghosts, makes big majicks, makes us see, hear and understand things that we would not normally, etc.
It is the most powerfull majical tool... The mind... manifests.
Most people never experience this. most peoples piniel gland calcifies at a young age! Mine is the size of a plumb

 

[look3467]

"What is man, that he should be clean? and he that is born of a women that he should be righteous?" Job 15:14

"Should be?" : clean, righteous?

Clean and righteous as compared to what?

"Let not him that is deceived trust in vanity: for vanity shall be his recompense." Job 5:31

If there is no faith in God, then vanity is all we have, and in our vanity, we are neither clean or righteous.

Unless.........................some one like God, with His cleanliness and His righteousnss, born of a women, can deliver all of humanity with one stroke, by making all of humanity as one with His cleanliness and righteouness.

Blessings, AJ

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Unless.........................some one like God, with His cleanliness and His righteousnss, born of a women, can deliver all of humanity with one stroke, by making all of humanity as one with His cleanliness and righteouness.
Blessings, AJ

That someone like God would be his heavenly Son (Rev 2:18) that will deliver or save righteous humanity (Matt 25:31,32; 16:27) not with one stroke, but as Isaiah 11:4 and Rev 19:11,14,15 says delivered by the 'words' of Jesus mouth being like a sharp two-edged sword to rid the earth of wickedness.


Psalm 92:7; 37:11,19,38; Proverbs 2:21,22; 10:30.

 

[AK4]

I mean is so easy to figure out if Jesus states over and over that no man has seen or heard God [the Father] voice at anytime that in Genesis where it says "And God said" that this must be Jesus as God back there in Genesis. Thus that is why you have Elohim in the plural. Why is this so difficult? Because He didnt come straight out and say it in the Gospels "I am God", but leaves all kinds of clues calling Himself Lord and stuff? Its amazing how stiff-necked people can be.